Sid: My guest Jennifer LeClaire is red hot for the Messiah; she’s not only successful in ministry she is Editor of News at Charisma Magazine. She has a bestselling secular book tell me about that book Jennifer.
Jennifer: I’ve written six books, the four dummies books, you know the books with the Yellow and Black covers that’s where I got my start in book publishing was producing these secular books on everything from technology to real estate. And it’s funny how God used me in Egypt; trained me in Egypt and then brought me over into the world of ministry to do the same sorts of things. And all along it was a matter of believing in myself.
Sid: That’s what I was going to say; there are many people that are listening to us right now and they have a lot of doubt about “Can they ever get it?” They’re like in a trap but you were in that trap if you will I mean you had lost your job, you had no money, you had a child, you had no child support. I mean I can just picture you pulling your hair out at that time. How did you get from where you were to where you are? Talk to some of these people with this self-doubt.
Jennifer: Yeah it’s such a big big problem with believers and nonbelievers alike this self-doubt because it paralyzes you. I mean if you don’t believe in yourself you’re not going to pursue your dreams. I never graduated college I mean you mentioned I’m a single mother, but I’ve never doubted myself; I never looked at myself the way the world might look at me. I’ve looked at myself the way God looks at me, and that’s really the key is having faith in who God says you are in Christ. We’ve got to be able to battle our insecurities and listen we all have insecurities; we all have little things about ourselves that we wish were different but we have to look past that look at again to what God’s Word says about us. For example I published 6 books Christian books on my own because I believed in the gift of God working in me. And everyone listening God has put a gift in you a unique and special gift in you and what He wants you to do is put a demand on that gift in you; the gift He gave you and it will produce fruit in your life you just have to believe in yourself and moreover you have to believe in Him. So I published these 6 books on my own no backing it took me several years, I wrote them all and published them. It turns out as we talked about in the last broadcast I end up getting two back to back book deals with a major Christian publisher. But all along the way I had plenty of people telling me “Oh why are you writing these books?” You know what’s the point? You know you’re going to have a limited audience, but I didn’t doubt myself despite the naysayers around me I didn’t doubt myself. Doubt is a dream killer and we’ve got to root that out if we’re ever going to walk in the fullness of God’s plan for our lives.
Sid: Okay Jennifer once you get rid of this self-doubt what do you do from there?
Jennifer: Well then you can really go after your dreams then your faith will really work for you at a much higher level because that self-doubt really hinders you. But when you get rid of that and you begin to move in faith in who you are in Christ; when you begin to understand and get the revelation really by meditating on God’s Word that all of His promises are yes and amen. That He has a good plan for your life you begin to pray with more confidence because only faith can break this cycle of unanswered prayers. And you know a lot of time the Lord gave me a revelation on asking. Seeking and knocking; that this whole idea of persistent prayer. Sometimes we ask and we just ask once and we think well that’s enough but sometimes it is enough but it’s not always enough. The Lord showed me that after we ask then we need to seek. When we ask Him for something we know that if it’s His will He’s going to hear us and we know that if He hears us then He’s going to give us that which we asked for. And so once we’ve asked Him for it in faith nothing wavering we should begin to seek it; we should begin to look for that prayer answer. We should begin to look for that open door. But then so we’ve asked and we’ve seeked and now we have to knock. Once we find that open door and we can see it and we can say “We know that this is God.” You’ve been praying for a job; you’ve been seeking a job and now you’ve got a job offer, once you’re convinced that’s God you need to knock on the door because the Bible says in Revelation 3 and 8 that “God opens doors that no one can shut.” And so it’s this attitude of persistent faith of not just being passive because again we talked about before “Faith without works is dead.” So once we ask we need to take action, we need to begin to seek; and once we find what we think is God we need to begin to knock. And we can be assured that God at the appointed time will open the door; and that holds true whether you’re looking for a job, whether you’re looking for reconciliation in a relationship whether you’re looking for healing for your body, whatever promise of God your standing on if you’ll take an act of faith a persistent faith and go after that thing nothing wavering, no doubt, no fear just pure faith you will see the promise of God manifest in your life.
Sid: Alright give me an example like when you were believing God for a condo.
Jennifer: You know Sid I believe in the power of confession, I also believe in taking action according to the wisdom of God. I had for years since 2005, about 2005, I began confessing this “I have an ocean front condo and it is paid for.” And it was the desire of my heart you know I have with it a long list of confessions that are based on the word, but this was a desire of my heart I wanted to live in an ocean front condo. But the prices were just exorbitant I mean this was at the height of the real estate market it was $300, 400, $500,000. I couldn’t see how it would happen but I just kept confessing I live in an ocean front condo and it is paid for. And so this is where you also rely on the wisdom of God we don’t want to get ahead of God just because we’ve been confessing something just sort of go for it out of His jurisdiction. I waited and I waited and I confessed and I prayed and I saved my money. And eventually 2010 rolls around it’s the bottom of the real estate market, I hook up with a real estate agent and I said “Let me just see what’s out there.” And I had saved my money, I began looking at properties and the Lord shored me here you go, here’s your ocean front condo. And it’s paid for, I paid cash for it at the bottom of the market and that’s where the wisdom of God comes in you know you have your confession you get your rhema word, this is a now thing and the wisdom of God comes in and you do it God’s way and now I am completely debt free. I live in an oceanfront condo, I’m looking out at the ocean right now and the boats in the water and I’m just amazed at God. And if you put His principals to work if you believe with your heart and you confess with your mouth God’s will over your life, it will come to pass.
Sid: Jennifer you had a chronic ankle problem but you were believing God. Tell me what you did and what happened.
Jennifer: Yeah, I had rolled my ankle pretty severely and it took a long time to heal it took about a year to heal a very frustrating experience having seen so many breakthroughs a lot of fast breakthroughs in my life I had to really exercise my faith muscle and continue to believe God despite the fact that this was a slow healing. But what was worse was that every summer I would go out on the mission field in Central America and it seemed like every summer I would sustain some sort of injury and often times it was around my ankle it was this sort of old enemy that would continue to harass me at a very inconvenient time where I’m out on the mission field and it’s very hot and I’m having to walk long distances. And I remember one time in particular, when the Holy Spirit said and this goes back to obedience we were talking about another program but we need to be obedient to the Holy Spirit. He told me you know don’t go down those steps and I didn’t know why all I knew was that everyone else was coming up and down the steps unloading their baggage from the cars and I didn’t listen. And it’s so dangerous not to listen to the Holy Spirit, I didn’t want to see me like I wasn’t a team player that I was too good to come and move the bags. So I went down the steps and just stepped on something just slightly turned my ankle and I was to where I had my foot up; it was wrapped I couldn’t walk and I was so frustrated. But the Holy Spirit is so gracious and He already saw this coming before I did it and He said to me He says “You know what, how would you act if you were healed?” And again faith without works is dead, and how would you behave, how would you talk, how would you act? And I thought to myself, “Well, I would be happy, I would get up and I would walk around and I would not complain and I would have nothing to complain about. And so that’s what I did I said “You know what I’m just going to go about my business I’m going about my ministry I’m not going to let the enemy stop me. The word says “I’m healed.” I repented to the Holy Spirit, I repented to God for walking down those steps after He told me not to I asked Him to forgive me, I asked Him to heal me, and then I acted like I was healed. I walked right around I went through the rest of the trip no pain, completely free and I’ve never had a problem with that ankle since then and that was many years ago.
Sid: Okay, out of curiosity when you first determined “I’m going to just act as if I’m healed, did your ankle hurt you?
Jennifer: It did, (laughing) it continued to bother me I guess for about a day and the pain gradually went away; it wasn’t instant. So many things with God we want them to be instant it’s not always instant but if you’ll be persistent you will see the breakthrough.
Sid: What other principal did you learn from that?
Jennifer: You know beyond persistence I learned that the battle was reinforced in me that the battle really is in your mind. We have to guard our hearts because what happens is well meaning believers, well-meaning Christians they saw that I rolled my ankle, they knew that I had issues with my ankle of course everyone runs around me and you know I’m so sorry and asking you well, how’s your ankle? Well I don’t want you to ask me how it is because really I don’t want to be disingenuous my ankle was hurting I didn’t want to confess that. And so you have to be careful you know what you even say; who you tell you know what you confess. You don’t want to be less than truthful if you’re sick you’re sick, but you don’t want that to be your confession. I learned how to balance that by saying “Well you know it’s still hurting but praise God I believe I’m healed and that pain is leaving now in Jesus Name.” And just continue to declare God’s Word despite the circumstances that are manifesting.
Sid: What about you do you have a cycle of answered prayer, is there something like a disconnect going on. Well most people don’t understand how to fight those enemies that are blocking your faith and the enemies are doubt and unbelief.
Sid: My guests are red hot for the Messiah but you know something I believe Betsy and Chester just knowing a bit about your background that even if you hadn’t gotten free in these various areas of your lives you’d still be red hot for the Messiah. But you certainly would not be having your prayers answered to the degree that you do now; you’d certainly would not be hearing God’s voice to the degree you hear now. The good news is as you’re personal journey set you free God directed you step by step you have helped I mean there’s hundreds of churches that are going through your materials and setting their whole congregations free, but God has shown you better ways, easier ways for people to be set free. But you told me on Monday, Betsy Kylstra, your biological considered an abortion and you didn’t even know this but it affected your life, you dealt with fear of dying, you thought you were a mistake, you never understand why these things were going on with you. You had a failed marriage, two children from that, but one day God showed you the cause of your inner turmoil tell me about that.
Betsy: Well, I would love to tell you about it. It happened one day in my living room with a very godly woman friend who had come to visit and she said to me “Betsy I feel like God just wants to speak to you He has something He wants to do in your life.” Well, I did not know that God spoke to us and I didn’t know He wanted to do things in our personal lives. I knew He did things kind of worldwide and universally but personal was a whole new thought to me and I didn’t know anything about this whole arena of God healing our hearts, but because I trusted this woman I said “Well, tell me what I’m supposed to do.” And she said “Well, just close your eyes and just say “Jesus You just come and show me whatever You want to show me.” And so sitting right there on the floor I did that and I said that and it was like I saw a moving picture screen in the back of my mind in which I never experienced before. I saw Jesus walk into this room where a little baby girl had just been born and I thought, “That’s the strangest thing I’ve ever seen what on earth am I seeing this.” And then I saw Him walk over to this little girl and pick her up, this band new little one and He looked at her with all the love that anyone could possibly have and He just began to speak His heart for her and He said “You know I have waited for you, I love you with an everlasting love, I have such wonderful plans for you I can’t tell you about all of them right now but they will unfold in my timing.” I was confused about why I was seeing this and then all of a sudden I knew that that little baby girl was me. I knew that the very God of the Universe had come to welcome me into life and into the world. Where when I was born in the Salvation Shelter for unwed women there was no one to welcome me and I now knew that I was welcomed that I had a place that He had given me a place of belonging just as He wants to do for each one of us.
Sid: What about these thoughts that you had these reoccurring thought of fear of dying, thoughts you were a mistake things like that? Just the dread and the insecurity and the self-doubt that you had, do you deal with those things today?
Betsy: I do not deal with those things today and I’m so thankful that I don’t. I think the whole thing it was interesting after that wonderful encounter where Jesus came to welcome me I knew that I knew, that I knew that I wasn’t a mistake, that I was His plan and chosen one. And later I met my birth mother and experienced and she said to me on the phone when I first talked to her she said “I want you to know that I prayed for you every day of your life and I loved you so much and want two parents for you.” Then besides that after that encounter with the Lord scripture began to just jump out at me, it began to become real to me; scriptures I had ignored in the past.
Sid: You know what you’re telling me? There was a block, a degree of a block in your relationship with God even though you were going to go to Heaven, even though you were going to love God with all of your heart, your whole life there was a block.
Betsy: You know there was…a lot of that block was removed right then in the encounter with Yeshua but there was another really significant experience I want to share with you because I continued to have some of that fear of death until my mid-thirty’s even into my 40′s. And one day I was in Bible college and I was registering for the course and the registrar looked up at me and said “Lady if you ever want to get rid of that spirit that demonic spirit of the fear of death I know how to help you.” Well, I was so embarrassed that that would be evident to her and I didn’t quite understand but I knew I had struggled desperately all of my life with this fear, this gripping panic about death. So I went, my husband I went prayerfully to her and she just stood, we did some repentance, some breaking generational sins and she and her husband we there praying for us and they had a word of knowledge about generational sins and deaths. And then they came against in the Name of Yeshua they came against that spirit of the fear of death; commanded that thing to leave and I choked and coughed and felt it leave. I went home and I’ve never ever in 30 something years since that time I’ve never experienced that fear.
Sid: You know for a lot of Christians they don’t know the reality of deliverance. Chester Kylstra you said something to me before we went on the air, that deliverance is easy if you get the healing in these integrated four areas that you deal with. Comment on that.
Chester: Yeah, you heard it said “The devil is a legalist and actually so is God.” God puts His Word out and so as long as there are legal rights into our lives we have these problems and these four sources are from which come all of our problems our ancestral sins and curses where the curse of the Second Commandment is the iniquity of the Fathers will be visited to the children for 3 or 4 generations. It’s a family curse and each generation enters into it the curse sort of we look at it as bouncing on down to the next generation. And so that gives the demons legal right in fact there are family demons their called familiar spirits that just past down generation after generation. And so by dealing with the family sins and curses and Jesus made a way for us to do that and it’s on the ministry card that you’ve been talking about that legitimates that one of the four legal doors. And then the ungodly beliefs we have the lies we believe like mine like “I was abandoned, rejected person and it was not safe to be around other folks.” Every time we believe a lie we’re actually in agreement with a father of lies, and we all know who that is. That gives another open door of legal access into our lives. And then the wounds of our heart which come out of our dysfunctional families and our friends, so called friends and our growing up and even in adult life they’re many disappointments and wounds in life. Out of those we sin against other people, we talk about having a tender spot or how we somehow give access. So the devil uses other people to poke into our tender areas and then we sin against them and we get mad, we yell, we holler, we do nasty things. So all three of those areas provide more legal rights; so as we deal with them then we can deal with the fourth area which is the demonic it’s easy to cast them out if we take away their legal rights first.
Sid: Now you had a problem with anger, how did you get rid of that?
Chester: Yeah, well I didn’t know it was a demon at the time but we went to, and it was more than a demon it was all four areas, but we went to this couple and that’s when we had our first experience in having demon’s removed from influencing us. They had me forgive and they had a more simple version of what we do now because they didn’t have the revelation God just continued to expand. But basically we took back some of the legal ground and then in their authority they commanded demons of anger to leave me. It wasn’t very dramatic, neither Betsy and I had major manifestations we just sort of yawned and burped a little bit. But my life was changed, thereafter I never again went into what I’ll call uncontrolled rage.
Sid: You know I’m so excited that it’s wonderful that the two of you got free, but God showed you and revealed these keys and you’re finding more streamline ways of doing it and setting so many people free. There are 100′s of churches that are using the Kylstra’s material.
Sid: My guest can’t help but be red hot for the Messiah he’s LA Marzulli and we have his brand new book it’s just come out, just literally right off the printing press. It’s called “On the Trail of the Nephilim” I have never seen such amazing research. You see the Nephilim were the giants that the Bible talks about and kind of mysterious and there’s talk about the angels having sex with earth beings, women. Then having giants as their children that did these great events that mythology talks about. It has been kind of fuzzy became there isn’t a lot of that in the Bible but LA tell me why you wrote your book “On the Trail of the Nephilim?”
LA: Well Sid it’s great to be here, thanks for having me on again. Basically the impetus for writing the book Jesus tells us very distinctly in Matthew 24 “It would be like the days of Noah when the Son of man returns.” It will be like the days of Noah when the Son of man returns, which immediately begs the question “What differentiates the days of Noah?” Remember when He’s saying this there is no New Testament, all He has to draw on is the Tanach, the Old Testament. So he’s pointing back to something. It’s like a flare, a spiritual flare as it goes off; look back at Genesis 6 because that’s the days of Noah. And what we see here is the presence of the Bnei haElohim, the fallen angels doing the unthinkable, having sex with human women creating a hybrid known as the Nephilim. This is the reason for the flood of Noah, and I believe it carries over throughout the Biblical…
Sid: Okay what is the Nephilim, you say is the reason for the flood of Noah, why do you say that?
LA: Well, the Nephilim were demonic hybrid essentially; again there’s the progeny between women of earth and fallen angels. This is an absolute abomination in God’s sight. And when we go down to Noah we see that only Noah’s genealogy is clear, is without contamination. Apparently not only with the human Kingdom but the animal kingdom as well. We know this again from the Book of Enoch which is quoted by the way 70 times in the Tanach and alluded to in the book of Jude, Peter and 1st Corinthians. We’ve got a good Biblical overview that the Book of Enoch was at least used and read, it’s also found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It sort of amplifies the Genesis 6 account and points specifically to this genetic manipulation. Here’s a really key point for us Sid, genetic manipulation happening in the days of Noah and also afterward. The text says “The Nephilim were on the earth then: and also afterward. And we’re going to talk about that of course when Joshua and Caleb go into the promise land; who is there? The Nephilim.
Sid: Now of course why didn’t the flood destroy them all?
LA: Well, this is a conundrum I believe that there was a second, third, fourth and fifth incursion. I believe that the fallen ones, specifically Satan, have been doing this over and over and over again. Written about this extensively when the judgment… anytime a Nephilim were present we see the judgment, there is no grace there is no mercy there is just judgment they get wiped out. When we go to Sodom and Gomorrah we see that same type of judgment from a loving Holy God who is the same in the Old Testament as He is in the New. This is tripped up Biblical scholars because without the Nephilim being plugged in and the progeny of fallen angels and the woman on earth, Sodom and Gomorrah seems like genocide. Then of course later on when we go to the conquest of the promise land by Joshua and Caleb we get that same mandate from a loving holy God telling Joshua and Caleb wipe everything out.
Sid: You know a lot of believers read this in the Bible and they say “What kind of God is this that wipes and entire civilization out?”
LA: Well, it makes no sense until we plug into Nephilim and then we realized that was is dwelling in these places are fallen angel in human hybrid creatures which are an abomination. And in the book I make a point that God sent Jonah to Nineveh and these people in Nineveh literally invented the word “barbarian.” They would have the heads of their enemies on stakes all around the walls of their city; they were some of the most despicable human beings ever to walk the face of the earth. And yet God sent Jonah because there’s grace and mercy; we don’t see grace and mercy with the Nephilim in the flood nor do we see it with Sodom and Gomorrah. Do we see it with the conquest of Canaan, the judgment is always final.
Sid: Now if there are Nephilim today why don’t we see 10 feet people walking around?
LA: Well, our DNA was changed and we know this for a fact because scripture tells us this. In the days of Nimrod at the Tower of Babel our DNA has changed and we know that our live span decreases from between 500 and 900 years back down to 120 years or less which is where we are. So the fallen ones are no longer getting what they got pre-flood.
Sid: I see, so now of course I’ve examined your research but what would you say is the first thing as you were on the trail of the Nephilim to push you over the edge to say “I have proof , I have documentation!”
LA: Well, there’s actually two the first sort of red flag for me was the plethora of accounts that came from the latter part of the 19 century into the 20th century. These are found you have to go to antiquarian libraries and look them up microfiche, but they’re there. And there are articles all over the America specifically from Ohio, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Indiana clear all the way down to St. Louis, down in Alabama and of course even out here in Catalina. We hear over… which is in California, we hear over and over again a race of giants which seemingly predated native Americans. Some of these giants were between 9 and 12 feet and then what’s interesting here Sid as we get primitive archeological digs being done where men of letters say 100 to 125 years ago will begin to dig into these mounds and there they find between 9 and 12 footers, double rows of teeth, six fingers red hair, and of course this is anomalous. The weaponry that they have; the spearheads the axe heads; we have one picture of a 26 pound axe head in a trail with the Nephilim. And we have a whole list, we picked the 25; we have hundreds of them to choose from these old newspaper articles. We picked the 25 ones which we thought would really sort of make the case that this was widespread. And then of course people ask “Well, where are the bones?” And that of course begins the cover up so that was the first, that was sort of the first part of the trail and later on we discovered something and that’s where we lead the expedition down to Peru.
Sid: Tell me what you’re finding in museums, I mean these pictures of skulls and of bones are amazing. Well, better that that “Why do you say our US government, foreign governments, the Smithsonian is involved in a cover up of these Nephilim?”
LA: Well, the Smithsonian again there’s a paper trail that goes back well over 135 – 150 years ago now, would show that that these bones are when they’re discovered there’s people have little museums and they write about these things. But as time begins and toward a latter part of the 19th century into the 20th we know this from the historical record that the Smithsonian sent out teams and not just 2 or 3 teams, many teams. They went to these places and they gathered up the bones and we’ve never seen them again. And conveniently of the Smithsonian, or the United States government, actually instituted was called NAGPRA which means “Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act.” Which means that as a white man here, I am not allowed to look at any of these remains without the presence of a tribal member. Which means I was down at UCLA yesterday and there was a tribal member there as I was examining these skeletal remains of Catalina. These were all Native American’s there was nothing anomalous in any of the skulls that I saw. But we know from the historical records that these people would find the bones would call the Smithsonian. The Smithsonian would come in, they would crate up the artifacts and the bones and they’re were never seen again; they were never displayed. And of course I have been trying to get into the Smithsonian now for well over a year we have a contact apparently on the inside that might be able to get me in we’ll see but realizing that between NAGPRA and the Smithsonian, and the fact that there seems to be a deliberate cover up of these artifacts. And the reason for this is it goes against a Darwinian paradigm and what is known as the Beringian Theory. Which is at the end of the last ice age at the Bering Strait that is where we get Beringian from. It created a land mass with all these people from Asia walked across into the Americas following megathon, in other words following large animals like mastodons, and bisons, and saber tooth tigers, so there was this big hunt here. Well, that’s been the paradigm which evolutionists and Darwinist have embraced ever since Darwin and later on.
Sid: So you’re telling me this totally throws a monkey wrench in Darwinism, in evolution, and that is the reason for the cover up; is that what you’re saying?
LA: Well, that’s what I’m laying my chips down because I believe that yes this is a deliberate cover up because Darwinism is sacred sought. A paradigm in which both academia and the scientific community work in. Anything that would support a Biblical worldview or a biblical model seems to be deliberately obfuscated, deliberately covered up.
Sid: And you know what I find fascinating is everyone thinks the first inhabitants in North America were Native Americans, but you have found evidence that there were giants way before the Native Americans right in the United States. You’ve assembled your best 120 pictures, totally unaltered; your research is like almost as if I can say a missing link in understanding end-times.
LA: Well, I agree and again we go back to Jesus saying “It will be like the days of Noah…”
Sid: Oops we’re out of time.
Sid: I know that I know that I know that I know… There is coming such a great awesome outpouring of God’s Spirit on planet earth. He’s going to have mercy because once more he’s going to shake this earth and those that are not on a firm foundation will fall. Now they’ll have good news for the church system in the world, and the good news is your churches are going to be packed, but the bad news is the harvest will be so great you won’t be able to contain it. And that’s why I am so excited about a new wineskin for a new outpouring of God’s Spirit and it’s… I have a manual in my hands something I have wanted desperately because of all the calls I get from people throughout the world that want to start One New Man Congregations. This is not the One New Man Congregation, but it is a vessel that will be able to contain the glory of God that is about ready to be poured out so that you can read my book “The Race to Save the World” and “Mega Shift” which tells you how to set up an open congregation; how to set up a home church. I mean this fellow Jim Rutz has spent 40 years not just researching on how it’s affected throughout the world, but he’s had hands on experience. And I have two people that started, the Holy Spirit started with them just like Jim. They’d never heard of Jim today they’re spokesman for Jim’s Organization Mega-Shift Ministries, Tim and Katie Mather. Tim you told me you have quite a heritage goes all the way back to a man I’ve heard about that was in the Salem witch trials Cotton Mather. Now just to clarify the record what side of the fence was he on in the Salem witch trials?
Tim: He was on the good side. He was one of the ones that put a stop to it in the end.
Sid: So how many generations of pastors in your family?
Tim: In amongst the 16 generations there were many many of the generations were pastors as it comes down to me.
Sid: Tell us a bit about your background so you became a pastor because your dad was a pastor and what is it like to be a pastor of a church, what is it really like. I mean under the current system that’s going on that’s all your family knew that’s all you knew. What was it like for you?
Tim: It’s very simply impossibility because there’s so many demands there are so many pulls on your life; so many things that you have to do if you’re in a smaller church you’re the janitor, and you’re the CEO, and your everything in between. It’s an impossible job.
Sid: So Katie as the pastors wife of this impossible job what did you see going on in your husband’s life while he was trying to multitask on too many tasks?
Katie: Well I saw him being pulled from many directions trying to be all things to all people, but not even really fulfilling what he felt was his true purpose, his true calling in ministry that was in his heart.
Sid: Why did you stay in the pastorate Tim?
Tim: Because I felt I had a call from God to preach the good news.
Sid: Were there times when you wanted to just walk away from it?
Tim: I had a colleague during a pretty long stretch of my ministry who said he had a resignation letter in his desk with no date on it and he would bring it out every Monday morning.
Tim: Dust it off and ask the Lord can I resign this week? It wasn’t quite that bad I don’t want to paint that kind of picture, but it was an impossibility. I knew the whole time that there was something wrong, that there as something missing from what God had called us to do.
Sid: What would you say was the highlight of your week as a pastor?
Tim: The highlight of the week is the time when we get to preach, that’s what I live for, I used to say that I lived 23 hours or six days 23 hours a week to get to do that 1 hour a week that I loved to do and that was to preach the Word of God.
Sid: So Tim when did you realize that the system was not as affective it was the best we had but it wasn’t as affective as it should have been?
Tim: Well, it’s kind of been an underlying thought looking back in my entire life I knew something was wrong. And talking with other pastors when there are no lay people around we would talk a lot about that over the years about it’s something missing, something’s out of place we’re missing it somewhere. And the question, the standard question is “Well, is this all there is, is this the real thing?” So it came to the forefront in 1992 and I was fasting and praying and I felt the Lord say to me “Preaching in its present form is not what I want, it’s not what I designed it to be.” Well, that was my entire life!
Sid: Well, you shocked by that Word?
Tim: I was shocked well I knew that….
Sid: Did you rebuke that word and think that it wasn’t the Lord?
Tim: I knew it wasn’t me so in discerning whether it’s the Lord speaking I knew it wasn’t me and I couldn’t figure out why the enemy would say to such a thing to me. And so when I began to just listen to what He had to say it began to open my eyes to we have to go into another direction to do the will of God on this planet, to pull off what He said in the Bible that’s going to happen.
Sid: So you didn’t have anything more than this word from God and this intuitive hunch that there’s got to be something more. So what do you do with this? Well your dad’s an old time preacher, did you go to him with this idea?
Tim: We went to him he was at that time preaching a six month series of messages called “Servants of Righteousness” which many people would call every member of ministry that were all called to do the work of the ministry. And I said “Do you really believe what you’re preaching?” And he said “Yes.” And so we said “Well, let’s see what the Lord has, let’s just go off on this adventure and see what He has for us not knowing where we were going. We left the country and we went in a sense to another country to find out this new thing.
Sid: Well, tell me about it.
Tim: Well the process was I was the coach I was the trainer in this church and so we began to train the people to do ministry, to pray for one another, to share, to evangelize, to go to the hospitals and minister to the sick. Every kind of gifting just finding out what it was and pulling it out.
Sid: Your job was to mobilize the body.
Tim: Right it’s to put them, get them in gear and so it was about an 18 month process. At the end of it what we were going to do was train house church leaders and ultimately we broke-up a church of about 180 people we broke it up into home groups.
Sid: And how did this work?
Tim: Well, it worked great in the beginning because we didn’t have a manual we didn’t have any other way to figure out what was going on we were listening to the Holy Spirit and trying to interpret what He was saying in this new place. And it was very difficult and so in the middle of our training process in the last six months of that time we found Jim Rutz’s first book somebody brought it to me and said “Hey this is a book that talks about what you’re doing it’s called “The Open Church” printed in 1992. So we got that and finally we were really thrilled because we weren’t the only ones out here in this place.
Sid: It’s sort of like as I propagate people understanding the one new man and I find out all over the world the Holy Spirit is speaking this thought to people I’m not a lone voice in the wilderness, so I understand what you’re saying, go ahead.
Tim: That’s why He develops….that’s why it’s so important to develop those kind of relationships to keep you in balance and God says the same thing over the entire planet and everybody’s hearing that. So we then used that book and trained our people and went to work and the presence of God was powerful and we called them life groups at the time. We trained them we sent them out; people were getting born again there were healings, there were people finding emotional and relational healing. People developing relationship in a new way and it was just a huge adventure.
Sid: The question that I have is what is the difference between what you’re doing today and what you used to do under the former system?
Katie: Well I think the big difference that we really saw in the people is that for so many years they had been the lay people in the church and there was a limitation to what they could do within the structured church as far as Sunday School Teachers, Music Ministry of different sorts, church positions. But what they began experiencing was actually ministering truth and life into people’s lives on a regular basis in a very real way and for themselves experiencing feeding people and bringing life transformation. And that was a very exciting part and we were able to equip them to minister in a very real and practical way so that it actually increased the ministry of the church.
Sid: You know every pastor heart is “How can I mobilize my people, how can I take this from spectators sport to everyone a worker?” But Tim what’s the difference between a good church that has home groups or cell groups they’re mobilizing people they’re doing these good things in a home church?
Tim: The answer to the question is one word and that’s control.
Sid: Tell you what, we’re out of time….
Sid: That ancient Jewish anointing and the Christian anointing have co-mingled to form the true body of Messiah. The glory of God is about ready to be released because of this explosion of the merger of the Jew and the Christian and we’re about ready to welcome in the King. But between now and then there are multitudes of people that must hear the good news. And right here in the United States of America we have a people group that have been sheltered. A picket fence has been put around us by a religious system called Rabbinical Judaism.
Now many people say the picket fence has been put around by the rabbis to stop Jewish people from breaking the laws of Torah. And that is true but there is a greater demonic truth connected with it. That picket fence that has been put around my Jewish people, and I saw my Jewish people because both of my parents are Jewish and I come from a traditional Jewish background to prevent us from thinking for ourselves.
When I was 29 years of age I went through an early midlife crisis. But I want to take you back to a period of time when I was a young boy maybe about 8 years of age. My parents used to go out late at night gambling playing poker and I was home alone. And I remember I had the strangest conversation with myself. Today I know it wasn’t with myself; but back then it was with myself. And the conversation went something like this, a question popped into my head. “What happens when you die?” And I remember thinking because you see in Judaism we believe in life after death but I had never had this discussed. So I thought “When you die you cease to exist.” So now as a little child, remember I’m a little fearful because I’m home alone it’s dark; it’s late and I imagine in my mind “What would it be like if I ceased to exist.” I don’t know if you’ve ever had that little mind trip but I sure had that and the more I thought about it the more objectionable it became. So I did the only intelligent thing I could do; I blocked it from my mind until many years later.
I remember I blinked my eyes a few times and I graduated from high school, then I blinked my eyes a few more times and I graduated from American University in Washington DC. Then I blinked my eyes a few more times and I was married; I blinked my eyes a few more times and I had a beautiful daughter. I blinked my eyes a few more times and I had a wonderful career with Merrill Lynch as an account executive. I blinked my eyes a few more times and remember my goal in life… I say remember I haven’t told you yet how could you remember. My goal in life was to be a millionaire by age 30; here I am age 29 and I will be a millionaire if I just stay with Merrill Lynch and do my job a multi-millionaire. But my whole goal in life was to be a millionaire; why? Because I was discipled by a one-eyed monster called television. And television told me if I had money I could be happy; I could buy things to make myself happy. I found out that’s a lie. You see you cannot be happy with all the money in the world if you have an inoperable tumor of the brain and you’re dying. You cannot be happy if your children are out selling their bodies in prostitution or caught up into drugs. You cannot be happy if your wife has just run off with your business partner.
No, the most important things in life money cannot buy. But I thought money would buy me happiness so by age 29 I did something I’m not proud of. I walked away from my wife; I walked away from my daughter; I walked away from my job and I went searching for happiness. I didn’t know what that search was for. I mean what would make me happy; I always thought money would make me happy. I thought “Well, I got married young maybe the social scene would make me happy.” So I started going to single bars. You know I came up with a conclusion really quick the loneliest people on the face of this earth are in single’s bars. Take a look at those places not at night with the sparkling lights but in the morning and look how filthy that place is; now you’re seeing reality.
I thought well, maybe I’ll go in business for myself, so I started a small brokerage firm selling insurance and I hired a salesman. And this salesman came in to see me in my office one day and he said “Sid I had a friend that had no psychic ability whatsoever but he took a course, a meditation course, a mind course, and now he knows things that he never was told. And I thought to myself “Wow, if I can break into that realm then I can make the money I want. I can find out what stocks to buy and then I’d have the money and then I’d be happy.” I’m a real logical type of person; of course my logic was based on the tip of the iceberg I didn’t know what was going on underneath the surface. So I take this course and at the end of the week they had an acid test and if you can’t pass the test you don’t have to pay any money. And I thought the course was a flimflam I’m sorry I’m in it but I want to get my money back so I stay for this entire course. And what they taught me to do is through meditation lower my brain waves, almost like in a hypnotic sleep, and when you’re at your most dull passive point invite a friend; they call it a counselor into your head who will give you this information that you had no other way of knowing.
And so I did this imaginary friend and I thought this whole thing was a phony baloney. I wanted my money back so I stayed until the end of the class and they gave me the acid test. They gave me the name of a woman that I’d never heard of and my partner said to me “Okay, this is her name what’s wrong with her physically?” And before I can even say “I don’t know” I see an image before me with an X over one of her breast and I say “Could she have cancer of the left breast?” And they looked at me and they said “That’s exactly what she had.” And I thought “This power is phenomenal; now I can make my money and can be a happy person.”
What I didn’t know was that this power was not a power that I was using at will. It was an intelligent being that was out to occupy every fiber of my being and destroy me after it’s finished using me. Because I found this power that I had tapped into started growing. It got to a point that I would just think a thought and things would happen. For instance, I said “I need a new office.” And right after I think this thought a man that I knew very casually walked into my office and said “Sid if you ever want to expand your operation and go into business for yourself.” I was working for another company even though I was an independent agent. “But go into business for yourself I’ll give you a free secretary; I’ll give you free rent; I’ll give you free telephone.” I thought “Oh, this power is phenomenal.” What I didn’t know was this man was involved with the power. This power was the opposite of the power that I was involved in. He was one of these born again Christians. So I took up his offer, I went into his place and he was weird; his partner had just returned from Israel. Get this he’s Gentile and he loves the Jewish people so much that he went there for a year and worked. You know how much money he got for it? Nothing, I mean I always thought that there was something wrong with Gentiles but now I knew that they were mashuga, that’s a Hebrew word crazy. And so not only that he’s reading his Bible all the time rather than doing business. What kind of businessman was this? And then they had Bible studies. And I used to wreck them, I thought I was smart, I was stupid.
Then one day he returned from Israel one year the one I thought was mashuga, real crazy. He walks into my office and he says “Sid, do you know according to the Jewish scriptures you are an abomination to God? It is hard for me to stop from laughing but I said “What do you know about the Jewish scriptures?” I’m Jewish, I was Bar Mitzvah!” He said “Well, turn to the Torah Deuteronomy the 18th chapter. And I turned to it and he said, “Read that.” And I started to reading in the 9th verse “When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God hath giveth thee thou shalt learn not to do after the abominations of those nations.” And I said “Well, I’m not doing after those abominations.” Keep reading. “There shall not be found among you anyone that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire.” What about abortion. “Or who useth divination.” That’s fortune telling “Or an observer of the times” that’s astrology. “Or an enchanter” someone who puts hexes on people and meditates. “Or a witch” and I knew what that one was, “Or a consulter of mediums, or a wizard or a necromancer.” That’s someone that does séances or communicates with the dead. God says for all that do these things are an abomination. Listen even these New Age meditation courses that I was taking they were loaded with priests and nuns. I’ll tell you what we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.