Sid: Getting ready for eternity to invade time; for those that are perhaps tuning in the first time my guest by way of telephone is Renny McLean. Now Renny was born in England his mother is Jewish, father is Jamaican. At a young age at age 7 his mother had visitations from the Lord and was a seer. He couldn’t get away with anything and when his mother said something it happened and that’s the way he was raised. But at the age 7 literally a light came into his room and Jesus appeared and he had a Heavenly visitation. He does not look at things the way most American Christians do, he looks at things from Heaven’s perspective as opposed to earth’s perspective. I have to tell you Renny although I am really enjoying your new book “Eternity Invading Time” I feel that I got to read it and reread it. Now I’m not an ignorant person I’ve been a believer many years; I’m a college graduate not that that means so much. But I mean I shouldn’t have to do it, but I’ve got to read it and read it and then read it again; why is that Renny?
Renny: Because when it comes to the realm of the Spirit the realm of the Spirit has to be perceived. Because it has to be perceived it means it has to be revealed. Because if it’s not revealed it’s not known; and that’s the reason why in fact that we have to read it again and again and again and again. I’m telling you brother Sid we’ve had well known people read that book great theologians that are Spirit filled read that book and their exact words were “To get the fullness of this book you can’t get it in one sitting.” It’s not a bed time story read. I mean it’s not a bed time sit read; I mean no I mean it’s a time if you are…I just heard it Sid; see if we’re seeking God for the next level for that realm of the miraculous where we can tangibly experience it and move in it and manifest it you know you’re going to get answers to questions in that book. Because I mean the answers are there; the answer; the answers are there in that book. And that’s not me the author saying it that’s what well-known who have read the book have said.
Sid: Well, it’s so new that you can’t have a great retail feedback but tell me one well-known person what he said about the book.
Renny: Okay one well-known person who has said something about the book; Okay Dr. T.L. Lowery.
Sid: Well, many of us are familiar with him he has quite a reputation.
Renny: Yes, he read my book; I bumped into him at a book convention in Denver and we bumped into each other and needless to say I said “Lord if he’s supposed to have this book put him in my path.” And the Lord put him in my path and I said “Dr. Lowery we have a mutual friend Marcus & Joanie Lamb.” He said “Well, praise the Lord” here’s the book and I promise you this will change your life. He read that book three times in one day and 24 hours he called my office requesting several more of those books it so changed his life and it’s still changing his life today.
Sid: Now I want to ask you a few questions just because many of our listeners are not familiar with you. I am in awe of the various creative miracles that occur so often in your ministry.
Sid: Tell me about some creative miracles involving eyes.
Renny: Okay, oh oh beautiful. Okay years ago and I mean and I’m saying it’s relatively new I guess it’s relative it’s not that far because all time is relative. Some years ago I was in Washington preaching and I remember one day I was there for three nights it was a three night event and the glory of the Lord was in the meeting each night. There seemed to be overwhelming sense of God’s presence and glory. And I feel that glory coming on us now even as we speak you know don’t be surprised if while you’re hearing this broadcast you’re just being healed. And it was an awesome presence of God in the meeting; and I’ll never forget that the glory was manifesting and I think people was worshiping because we teach this principal about the glory of God for the miraculous. We teach this principal with great depth this is what we say to people. God inhales our worship; He inhales it and He exhales the glory. What God exhales is based on what He inhaled. If our worship doesn’t ascend into the nostrils of God there is no manifestation in the glory. So the question is how much of the glory do we really want; so we worship…
Sid: So the people… I’ve got to put a God commercial in right now Renny. So the people who go to meetings and say “I’m waiting for the superstar to speak you’re taking too long with the worship” have missed what’s going on.
Renny: Totally they’ve missed it; they’ve missed it because you got to create the atmosphere for the worship for the miracles to manifest. The tangibility of the miracles is based on the atmosphere.
Sid: I love the statement that you made Renny I’ve got to repeat it; “God inhales our worship and exhales His glory.”
Renny: Yes He does; oh yes. See the problem is in the church that we either don’t worship long enough or if we do we don’t have a sense; we don’t have a sense; we don’t have a sense of what we’re doing. Because we’ve often at times worship as if it’s the thing to do and we don’t realize we’re creating the environment that’s on; sorry we’re creating Heaven’s environment in the earth’s realm.
Sid: Let me ask you a question that I’ve been thinking about actually ever since I’ve been reading your book where to talk about the new song which most Christians have never even heard of. But I was thinking about a signs and wonders ministry that most people think of when they hear signs and wonders and that’s Benny Hinn.
Sid: And of course I know Benny but also knew Katherine Kuhlman and both of them understood the dimension that you’re talking about.
Renny: Oh my Lord.
Sid: If you take the worship out of a Benny Hinn meeting or previously a Katherine Kuhlman meeting I don’t think you’d have the same miracles.
Renny: Well, the truth is you wouldn’t have miracles at all because the secret of it if you remove a fish from water it dies; life corresponds with environment. Well when you remove worship from the church there’s no correspondence to Heaven. So His kingdom isn’t coming and it’s not being done on earth as it is in Heaven because in Heaven worships going on. And in Heaven everything is healed there’s nothing in Heaven that incomplete in fact if we realize it and looked at it in the realm of the Spirit that’s when it means if we realize what the worship the miraculous would manifest but we stop at the point of breakthrough you know. We either worship to fill in a place or to fill in a spot in the service but we don’t realize that we’re filling in blanks and the atmosphere for the supernatural to manifest. We’re charging the atmosphere with our worship and I’ll tell you Sid why it’s so important when I say this because at times we go to services and we look for the musicians to carry the worship. But people don’t realize this the original sound of the glory is on your voice, the voiceprint of God is in our voice when we’re worshiping God and God in Spirit and in Truth. That means when you open your mouth to worship God knows who’s worshiping in the church; He knows who… that’s real scary. God knows who’s worshiping in other words you can’t hide in the service; everybody’s voiceprint is different; just how your thumbprint is different. If we realize our voiceprint in the realm of the Spirit is attached to a miracle that means the miracle is in our mouth as we worship God the miracles would start to break forth. The problem is we wanting somebody else’s worship to bring us our side to Heaven.
Sid: But what if someone goes to a good Spirit filled church but their really… worship isn’t the highlight and they see it but they decide they’re going to worship God with all their worth even if the rest of the congregation isn’t. What will happen to that person?
Renny: Worship is contagious; the secret of it is it takes one person sometimes to start it and as you start the bull rolling other people will step in the flow and step in the river of God. The secret of it is you’ve got to see yourself at that moment in time as the person that God anointed with the Spirit of worship to bring in the glory in the church. Then as you start to worship others will start to step in.
Sid: You know another thing that I was just talking about myself is many times the words in the songs are unbelief; they sound wonderful but there plain unbelief and I don’t want to proclaim that and so what I’ll do is I’ll just sing in unknown tongues.
Renny: Oh, that’s wonderful I do that all the time (Laughing) oh that’s good, that’s the secret because what people do not realize is that what you are confessing is what you are decreeing.
Sid: I refuse to proclaim with my lips some of the words of some of the popular songs.
Renny: Oh sure I totally agree with you because I certainly don’t do it; in fact many times when songs are sung that do not match what Heaven’s says about us many of the times I just sing in the Spirit. I just sing in the Spirit because I’m not going to attach that word to my spirit because I’m aware that want I’m saying what we’re saying is what we’re sowing and what we’re sowing is what we’re going to reap.
Sid: Renny, your new book “Eternity Invading Time.”
Renny: Yes sir.
Sid: It’s a now book; if you want to understand what is going on in the earth from Heaven’s perspective, and I have to believe a lot of what if not all of this book came really from the Spirit of God.
Renny: Oh, let me tell you sometime for years God had dealt with me on it and really and truly because it came from the throne of God; it came from the throne of God. And I mean every chapter in that book was birth out of the visitation of God that we had had in one of our meetings. So everything that you see that’s in print in that book is actually in the at… came out of the atmosphere of God’s glory with great signs and wonders followed. It came out of a miracle atmosphere. That’s why people who read that book they don’t just receive miracles and experience miracles, but they learn how to move in miracles.
Sid: Well, I have to tell you that the title “Eternity” that’s God’s realm.
Sid: “Invading Time” that’s the realm we’re in it’s as if you state in your book “Eternity is drawing closer to earth.”
Renny: Yes it is oh my goodness yes because time is shortening; time is shortening Yeshua is coming and time is shortening. That simply implies that the time that we have left on the earth… everything that is prophesied has to take place in this time frame.
Sid: Whoops we’re out of time oh unfortunately we’re in that earth realm right now; one day we we’ll be in eternity realm even on the radio.
Sid: I want everyone everywhere mentored under Don Gossett because Don is a precious jewel but he spent the last sixty plus years learning from the best faith teachers on the planet and then he started operating just like them and I want you to get these gems. For instance Don have you seen or have you prayed for a dead person that has come back to life?
Don: Yes, more than once in the book “He’s the Miracle” I sure did account for what happened out in Indiana City way up North. They told me they know you don’t have large crowds here like you have down South in India where you’ve ministered to 10′s of thousands each night. But Sid about 500 people is about all we’ve had and that very first night the crowd was about a 1000 which pleased the missionaries. And their people were all seated of course on the ground and suddenly a man his wife both stood up and a lady walked over and poured water on the little boy. I was preaching on the blood of Jesus and I paused and “What’s going on?” So the husband and wife came forward with the little boy in their arms and in Hindi the father was wailing my child is dead, my child is dead that the interpreter he shared with me what he was saying. So that’s when I asked the people all to stand together and unite with us as we prayed a prayer of faith; the personal workers were around the couple with their little boy. After just a very comparative short time suddenly it came out over the victory shout that he’s breathing, he’s alive, he’s healed. One of the members of our team was a Dr. Daniel a Medical Doctor he confirmed what actually what had happened. Over 10 minutes the boy was dead and now he had life abundant; and the very next morning the mother brought the little boy to see my wife and me and he was very much alive, he was alert and ran of course he was. So that is one of…
Sid: Out of curiosity how did the crowd react when they saw that?
Don: The crowd reaction was amazing being a strong Hindu town the word spread just like wild fire that a boy was raised from the dead at the meeting and they came instead of a 1000 there were estimated over 10,000 that came forward. And I said to them “I know the reason you have come tonight because of this boy over here that was raised from the dead last night but I want you to know what’s most important is not his raising from the dead but Jesus Christ the Son of God who died on the cross of Calvary. That He was raised from the dead the third day and He’s alive forevermore. And now it you’ll receive Jesus Christ you can be saved; you can be born again. I asked them “How many of you are ready to make this act of confession of faith?” And normally in India because of the great prevalence of all kinds of gods and goddesses and idols they have, I will always ask them and give them a salvation invitation “I hereby renounce all my gods and goddesses and I will forsake all my idols; and I’ll receive Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord.” Soon after a prayer of something like that I’ve lead 1000′s of them in that way and I ask them “You know for sure you’ve received Christ and you know you’re now born again. In veritably there were hands that go up just in mass. That’s what was always so convincing is the miraculous working of God.
Sid: Okay I want to learn something right now Don. When you prayed for that dead baby tell me I want you to as best you can reconstruct it number 1 did the thought cross your mind “Uh oh! I’m going to pray for this dead child and he’s not going to come back to life;” did that thought cross your mind??
Don: You know in such an atmosphere of the level of faith and Hebrews and probably 2nd Corinthians 4:13 “We having the same Spirit of Faith according to as it was written I believed therefore I’ve spoken; we also believed therefore we speak.” And I knew the importance of the connection of believing and speaking, that’s the way faith functions. Basically you speak the word and then you simply act upon it with great confidence. Well that’s what really gripped my heart that praise God it will be the same as many other incidences the Lord is stretching for the hand. I wasn’t the healer it was all Jesus Christ and to Him is all the glory and honor.
Sid: Okay I want you if someone walked up to you this minute and put a two year old dead child in your lap I want you to tell me; I want you to actually pray for that child right now I want to know how you pray.
Don: In the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth the Son of the Living God I take authority and dominion over these spirits of infirmity that have invaded this little child’s life. In Jesus Name I speak forth the resurrection life of Jesus to permeate his body and life to come back into this body in Jesus Name. Then I would simply urge people with confidence to begin to give God thanks and praise in advance but also the manifestation is quite instantaneous and that’s what my result has been.
Sid: Now I know that you understand the power of worshiping God; where did you first learn that? Was it from William Freeman?
Don: No it was actually a personal visitation of Holy Spirit to my own heart and my hunger for the Lord. I was invited to go to meetings where there is a real outpouring of the Spirit. At that time it was called the Latter Rain Revival, a term that didn’t last very long; but it was characterized by real praise and worship. The people would stand for maybe an hour to praise the Lord and it became very convincing to my heart about the authority of the power to praise. I began to study the word diligently and it became such an awesome truth.
Sid: You know what I’ve noticed a ministry like say Benny Hinn, I think the greatest miracles happen because they worshiped in such a magnificent fashion and then the miracles happen. Have you noticed that?
Don: Yes absolutely it’s been a truth that God has really used to explode in the hearts of people not just by my ministry only but by many other ministries. It’s so significant it’s a forerunner of miracles.
Sid: I want to hear you praise God for about a couple of minutes; would you do that? And by the way I want you that are listening, I want you to begin to praise God after you hear how he does it and you start doing that every day. Would you just praise God Don the way you would normally do that?
Don: Lord Jesus I give you praise and thanks for You have said you inhabit the praises of your people; Lord I think You that I have the delight to praising You for a grace, salvation, deliverance and all these wonderful blessing; Lord I give you glory, I give you honor I give you praise. Thank you Lord that I’m a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation a peculiar people that I should show forth the praise of Him who has called me out of darkness into His marvelous light; and Lord I respond to You word by Him therefore let’s offer the sacrifice of praise to God continuously that’s the fruit of our lips giving thanks to His Name; Lord I offer the sacrifice of praise because of my adoration of You and Your great deliverance Your salvation. Praise You Jesus, praise you Jesus. And Sid on my daily broadcast all over the world this is what I’m most famous for if I can call it that, is I conclude a broadcast by saying “People let’s take our praise break and let’s say ‘Praise the Lord’ ten times.” Now the number ten becomes significant in a study of what is the value of it and the people everywhere that I minister they have joined me in simply an action of faith to say “Praise the Lord” and say it 10 times.”
Sid: Well, let’s do that right now.
Don: Alright “Praise the Lord.”
Sid: “Praise the Lord.”
Don: “Praise the Lord.”
Sid: “Praise the Lord.”
Don: “Praise the Lord.”
Sid: “Praise the Lord.”
Don: “Praise the Lord.”
Sid: “Praise the Lord.”
Don: “Praise the Lord.”
Sid: “Praise the Lord.”
Don: “Praise the Lord.”
Sid: “Praise the Lord.”
Don: “Praise the Lord.”
Sid: “Praise the Lord.”
Don: “Praise the Lord.”
Sid: “Praise the Lord.”
Don: “Praise the Lord.”
Sid: “Praise the Lord.”
Don: “Praise the Lord Hallelujah.
Sid: You know what the anointing is so strong.
Sid: I tell you this is the time to be red hot for the Messiah and I’m speaking to a woman by the name of Dawn Sweigart; I’m speaking to her at her home in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania by way of telephone. Dawn there are people that really really you know they’re kind of… they want God, but they’re in a comfort zone and they don’t want to give up their comfort zone. They don’t want anyone looking at them, they don’t want anyone talking about them.
Sid: But yet it’s almost like a tug of war, one part says “God I want You, I want You desperately I want You.” The other part says “My flesh wants me to just be comfortable.” What do you say to these I guess James calls them these double-minded people?
Dawn: Well, I would plead with them as Paul pleaded to the church in Rome when he said in Chapter 12 “I beseech you therefore brethren by the mercies of God that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God which is your reasonable service.” My translation that I would write in my journal is “Which is the least that you can do and stop being conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind so that you can prove what is good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” It is time that we tell people exactly what God says. And He says if we are double-minded that we will not receive a thing that we ask for because we’re like a wind tossed to and fro.
Sid: So tell me Dawn what happens to a young believer that is on fire for the Lord experiencing real love for the first time in her life, experience a life without torment and fear. You’re so in love with Jesus, you’re doing the stuff as you called it, you’re really doing the stuff. You’re moving in prophesy and all of a sudden you get something and I’ve never heard of this called “Cushing’s Disease.” Explain that to me
Dawn: Well I had struggled with a lung disease, it was severe asthma-bronchitis growing up but after 25 bouts with phenomena it had turned into chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. I had home nurses come in and oxygen tanks, and I had been on steroids prednisone for the last 25 years and since I was 9 years old. At 3 years ago my body just started changing I began to blow up like a tick, and my neck was swollen and my face was swollen, my torso was swollen and I went to the doctor and they said “From the years on steroids I had developed Cushing’s Disease.” Which is a syndrome that causes your pancreas to shut down eventually because your liver will shut down, your kidneys just shut down and they put me on all sorts of medication to begin balancing it out but they said that I could not stop taking the steroids or I would die because I needed them to breath.
Sid: So what happened?
Dawn: Well, the Lord invited me in to His Kingdom and to be healed. I want you to know I had stood in at least 50 prayer lines in the last twelve years. I had been prayed for by intercessors soaking prayer everything. And He didn’t have to heal me, He was Jesus whether or not He healed me, He was a healer whether or not He healed me. But it was at a crisis point where it was “Well Lord I feel like the woman with the issue of blood, I’ve spent all my money.” And all my time on doctors and hospitalization after hospitalization and even conferences when I had gone out to speak having to leave a session to go to the ER to have IV steroids pumped in. And so I spent all my money on doctors and I was even worse because of it. Just like that woman with the issue of blood who was willing for it to cost her everything the Lord asked me if I’d be willing to believe Him and His power more than medicine. You know I don’t put it as a judgment on anyone I’m not beyond taking an Advil if I have a headache and even now…
Sid: But God told you and that’s the difference.
Dawn: That He told me and He said “I want you to believe in Me for this healing more than steroids and more than the antibiotics which I was sick with… on every 6 weeks. And I develop pneumonia again but I had weaned myself off of steroids. Was coughing up blood, diuretic turning gray had not been able to lay down for three days. I would feel like I was drowning and when I did I was with Rita Springer and Terry Gladstone for an amazing teacher of the Word and read a course and awesome Worship Leader for this hour and this generation. We left our conference and I had been unable to even to walk to the car they had to pull it around to a side door. My breathing just started shutting down and Rita was praying in the backseat, she’d seen her father lose his father lose his battle with cancer at 9 years old after believing for healing, and her mother lost her battle with cancer when Rita was 20. And so Rita was weeping in the background going “God please I’ve never seen You heal when someone believes You for healing, but I’m asking You now. And Terry began to declaring who Jesus was that He was the Alpha and Omega, He was the Healer; He was the resurrection and the life. And I passed out, I lost consciousness, I was holding on to the luggage rack but they said that they didn’t think I had passed out because they heard a tongue coming out of me and they thought I was praying in tongues. But one of the things that I had asked the Holy Spirit to do is that when I could no longer speak, whether it be for lack of strength or lack of hope, or lack of faith, that He would pray through me in words that I could understand that would speak mysteries to God that I might obtain all that He has for me. I woke up with my hand dropping into my lap and when I woke up I just wanted to lay down, I hadn’t been able to lay down for days so I unstrapped my seat belt and reclined. After I did that the dashboard light went off and unrestrained passenger, unrestrained passenger and I began laughing. You have to understand with severe lung disease you can get a ha ha a chuckle out before you have to breathe again. And I mean I’ve watched as renewal rivers have come through churches and Toronto and Randy Clark’s Ministry and Gary Shelton’s worship and I love it, but it had never hit me in that kind of uproarest joy. I began just rolling with laughter and as my friends were weeping and crying and saying “What is going on?” Terry finally saying “I think God healed her.” The Lord just came for a half an hour as I went between crying because He’d healed me and laughing again because He had healed me. As we exited the van in the valet parker didn’t know what party we had come from and Rita began to declare that I had been healed. When we got into the elevator that was a bell man I was immediately sobered and I began to tell him who Jesus was. Like He’s a healer, I’ve just been healed tonight. He’s a Messiah, His Spirit wants to come and live inside of you; and just began preaching the gospel to him.
Sid: Dawn, how long ago was that?
Dawn: This was last September.
Sid: Okay, and let me ask you a question since that point have you taken any medicine?
Dawn: Not one steroid.
Sid: I mean this is a year now.
Dawn: This is a miracle. In fact they went in and seen scar tissue in my lungs last time and thought there was a growth there. After lung disease there can be carcinomas and things like that develop and I said “You know well I’ll just wait and believe in God.” I’ve had a completely clear chest X-ray, there’s no scar tissue anymore which is medically impossible. It’s medically impossible for my lungs to be new, but I am a new creation in Christ, old things have passed way I am a new creation. He has done a creative work in my body and I am not sick, I can jog on my treadmill, I can go for 12 – 18 – 24 hours without a nap. I used to be so deoxygenated after four hours I’d have to sleep. And He has made me new in Him so I believe and it has just amped my faith to a level I haven’t known before. God can do anything.
Sid: Right now God can heal you; Dawn you are just filled with faith I want you… those that are listening I want you to take your hand and do what Mark says, put your hand on your body preferably the part that you want healed and I want you to pray for them to be healed right now Dawn.
Dawn: Absolutely, Lord Jesus Yeshua haMashiach I call on Your Name, I call on You as Messiah and as healer and I thank You that we are seated with You in Heavenly places. I thank You that You’ve been given all authority but have made us co-laborers with You and have given us all authority to go and heal the sick. So I release a word of healing in Your Name right now. I command cancers to dry up and fall off of bodies and out of bodies now in the name of Jesus. I command high blood pressure to be stabilized, I command the pancreas to come back to life and for diabetes to go in Jesus Name. I command depression and bipolar disease to leave. The Lord God said He will go before you and make the crooked places straight, I command a straightening in the body, in the mind and the emotion. I command even backbones and hips right now even where there’s a spinal surgery and spinal fusions I call forth a newness and a flexibility. I call on You Lord to make the weak strong. And I declare to those of you that have had difficulty walking and running that those who wait on the Lord will renew their strength and as you wait on Him now as you have your hands on your knees and on your hips and on your ankles and on your feet He is renewing your strength right now; for the sake of the Kingdom that I might declare His glory to your doctors, to nurses, to family members who see. The protocol children that they would come back home when they see that Jesus has moved on you; that your unbelieving relatives who don’t even know that Jesus is the Messiah would come to believer because of the sign and the wonder. So Lord God now infuse them with power, I release power and strength and healing in Jesus Name.
Sid: And I tell you Mishpochah only believe, only believe that Dawn was not speaking on her own ability, only believe that was God speaking through her to you and you are healed in Yeshua name.
SID: Now a normal pastor doesn’t teach because they’re not normal, according to the Bible, in my opinion, about the Ten Commandments. Did you teach many series and things on the Ten Commandments before God spoke to you?
ROBERT: Sid, I really didn’t as a matter of fact. Occasionally, I would mention the Ten Commandments and never had actually done an entire series on the Ten Commandments, nor the importance of the Ten Commandments, because I really just didn’t have a revelation, and to be honest with you, it seemed a little religious. And I think that’s probably the sentiments maybe of a lot of pastors today. They just seem outdated. We don’t need to teach, do this.
SID: I hear a lot of people, when Jesus said, “We’re no longer under the Law,” of course, he was talking about the laws of animal sacrifice, the laws in the Temple, etc. But what do you say about “no longer under the law”?
ROBERT: Well first of all, I say, as far as the moral law that we see contained in the Ten Commandments, every single one of the Ten Commandments are rearticulated throughout the New Testament. They’re rearticulated by Jesus. They’re rearticulated by Paul. They’re rearticulated by James. And so all of these, the apostles definitely wouldn’t be rearticulating these commandments if they were not relevant to us today. And of course, we read how that love fulfills the Law. And of course, the question I have is, how can the love fulfill a law that doesn’t exist or that is not relevant? And so we have to come to the understanding that the Ten Commandments are relevant for us. They need to be preached. They need to be taught today because they are a key to experiencing the life of God, and not only the life of God, but I believe the obedience to those commandments actually align us for the manifestation of the supernatural power of God in ways like we never have seen before.
SID: Speaking of that, God has shown that you in the United States and in Israel, there will be a mighty miracle revival but something could abort it on individuals. What did He show you?
ROBERT: Well I believe there’s a tidal wave of revival, a tidal wave of anointing, a tidal wave of the power of God that is being—
SID: I’m ready. Are you ready?
ROBERT: I believe we’re all ready. We are ready. But you know, one of the things that we have to do, let me back up. The question is not as to whether or not it’s the will of God. The question is this. Are we willing to align ourselves properly so that God can do this and release it within our lives? And you know, you can see throughout the Bible how that the supernatural was always released in the lives of those who obeyed what they were told to do, what God commanded them. You know, you think about Naaman, for instance. Well he would not have been healed had he not obeyed. And so it’s very important that we understand the importance of obedience, the importance of adherence to God’s commands. And as we do that, that brings forth an alignment within our lives that releases the hand of God in a supernatural manner for us.
SID: Actually, Jesus, as you teach, rose the bar on the Ten Commandments rather than just cutting them out of the Bible.
ROBERT: Exactly. Grace does not lower the standard. Grace raises the bar. It takes it to the next level. Because Jesus said, “You know, you’ve heard, don’t commit adultery. But I’m telling you, don’t even look that way.” And he addresses the actual root issue within the heart of man. See, that’s what grace comes to do. Because we’re new creations in Christ Jesus, now the Law is written on our hearts and we’re empowered. And grace does not excuse us. Grace empowers us to do what is right and what is holy before the Lord.
SID: Okay. Jesus said, the last days, many will say, “Lord, Lord, did I do these things?” What did he tell us?
ROBERT: Well he actually said to those, he said, “Many of them are going to come to me and say, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not done these things?’” He said, “But I’ll say to them, ‘Depart from me you who practice lawlessness.’” “Lawlessness” is the word that Jesus actually used. And lawlessness is to “live void of law”, to live void of any parameters, any rule. And so we have to understand, law is not bad. Law is good. We need law. And of course, we need the Law of God, the law of the Spirit. Paul talked about the law of the Spirit and that is what we begin to live our lives by.
SID: Tell me, wait a second, you’re a prophet. I charge you right now to look at the people at home and move in the gift God has given you.
ROBERT: Well Sid, I see somebody right now who’s had issues in their sinus cavity. I see like growths in the sinus cavity. And right now, the hand of the Lord is upon you and God is healing you. There’s a supernatural manifestation that is taking place within your life right now. I sense there is somebody here that’s been standing in believing for children. I hear a child’s name, Danny, a son that you’ve been believing God for. And the Lord is saying to you that you could rest assured that He is working in Danny’s life. I see a call of God on this young man’s life and God is going to cause him to come in. You’re about to receive a phone call from him, and God is going to restore the relationship that was broken. He is a restorer of the breached and God loves you, and He’s going to begin to bring forth that supernatural manifestation within your life.
SID: Tell me about that car salesman in your church. I mean, what types of things have people moved to the next level in your congregation as you’ve taught on this?
ROBERT: Yes. Well this gentleman that was in our church was a used car salesman, and may I say, he was the stereotypical used car salesman. And he was, you know, basically just wanted to make a buck, however. It didn’t matter what type of things he had to do in order to make a buck. Anyway, he began to come to church. He began to receive this teaching. I was teaching on how that Jesus raised the bar, takes the commandments to the next level, how that you didn’t need to live your life as one who stole. You could live your life as a giver rather than a taker. And he began to put these principles into practice. He began to tithe. He began to give offerings. He began to sow. And today now God has totally done a revolution within his life. Today he actually owns a million-dollar business and God is blessing him to such a great degree. As a matter of fact, they tithe on everything that comes into their business. God is blessing him in a tremendous way and it’s all because he began to take this understanding of the Ten Commandments and even learning how to live as a giver. Of course, part of that means you bring the tithe. In order to not steal, you have to bring the tithe. You have to begin to bring the offering, exactly, give, to the Lord. And as he began to do this, God began to bless him. He released abundant life with him, just like he told, Jesus told the rich young ruler, “If you’ll keep the commandments you’re going to experience life. You’ll experience Zohar.” Well he began to do this and God has blessed him tremendously.
SID: I have a question for you. Are you involved in lawlessness? Do you steal like that used car salesman? Do you lie? Are you involved in sex outside of marriage? Are you involved in homosexuality? Are you involved in pornography? Are you involved in New Age? Are you lawless? Are you stealing the worship that God is entitled to? Well the Bible says, to believers in the Messiah, if you confess your sins, talking to believers, I tell you, he’s just, oh, he’s just, and faithful, oh, he’s faithful to forgive you of all, A-L-L, all unrighteousness. And if you don’t know the Messiah, what are you waiting on? Tell him you’re sorry. Believe that he’s forgiven your sins. Ask him to be your Lord and live inside of you. It’s that simple. But where we are in history, if you’re lawless, if you don’t know God, you don’t know, bad English, but it’s the way that I feel, you don’t know nothing. You don’t know nothing. Make Jesus your Lord and, oh, sinuses, allergies. Has God showed you healing on allergies?
ROBERT: I believe there’s healing. There’s anointing. There’s oil that is flowing right now
SID: For allergies of all kinds, breathing problems in Jesus’ name. Take it. It’s yours.
Sid: I have on the telephone someone that has seen more miracles probably than anyone I know outside of her parents, Charles and Francis Hunter. Her name is Joan Hunter I’m speaking to her in Dallas, Texas, although her office is in Kingwood, Texas. Joan we were talking before we went on the air that there are actually root issues behind the opening the devil has taken to put diseases on people. We know about, because we spoke about generational sins that we can’t even take blame for, but for sure that passes on from generation to generation; we sure can cut it off. There are root issues involved in what we are responsible for, give me an idea of some of them.
Joan: Okay this is not a physical situation, but this is something that happened last week. There was a person that I know that has been unemployed for months, like 4 or 5 months. Probably has sent in hundreds of resumes, hundreds and hundreds of resumes, and not even a $5 minimum wage job, and she’s an executive. Okay? No job, no job and God told me to call her and minister forgiveness to her where her previous employer was concerned. So I ministered forgiveness to her and we walked that out, then I had her break any word curses that she might have said over her ex-employee. I told her as a result of that, that she would have a job, this was Wednesday, and that she would have a job by Friday.
Sid: Excuse me was that a word of knowledge, or was just stepping out by faith?
Joan: I knew it in my heart and in my spirit, it was a word of knowledge.
Joan: Because of what she had done she would get a job very quickly, but I said “You will have a job Friday.” This was Wednesday afternoon when I prayed with her. I called her Thursday night and I said “Did you get a job?” She goes “No, but I’ve been telling everyone that I’m starting to work on Monday.” So then I talked to her on Friday afternoon at 4:45 and she just got a call and she started to work on Monday.
Sid: Okay as a matter of review now, what did she pray?
Joan: We prayed together to God to forgive her of any of the sins of words that she has spoken negatively over her ex-employer.
Sid: My goodness you would think the problem would have been what the employer spoke negatively over her, but it was what she…
Sid: So our words are very important when we judge and condemn.
Joan: I told her that, and I knew that negative words had been spoken over her by her employer before she left and after she left. So we broke… we did forgiveness number 1, then we had her renounce the words that she had spoken, which all that is covered in the new book “How to Heal the Whole Man” handbook. We broke the power of those words that she had spoken, thus in the word it says “If you forgive you will be forgiven.” So when you break the word curses over that you have spoken, you in turn have the power to break the word curses spoken over you. So at that point the word curses spoken over her were also broken.
Sid: What about judgments, and let’s get specific over pastors and talking about pastors, or those in a spiritual authority?
Joan: Sunday at church I was able to attend church on Sunday morning, and the pastor got up there and he says “We need to repent on all that we’re doing and walk sin free,” and all of a sudden he goes “and that includes gahh sippp.” You know he goes “Gahh sippp about your pastor.” You know and so forth. The scriptures talk about “If you’ll honor a prophet you will receive a prophet’s reward.” Now I believe… the interpretation that I believe that God has given me is that when you bless a prophet who has prophesied over you whether it be a prophet per say, or your pastor. The pastor comes in he speaks a good word over you, and you go “Man that was great I just bless my pastor he’s just the best pastor in the world, and blessings, blessings, blessings, blessings…” You will reap in the word that he spoke over you whether it was to the congregation or to you specifically. If you go home and you go “I didn’t like the pastor’s wife. I mean did you see that outfit she had on? Oh that lipstick, oh her hair, and not to mention did you see the pastor’s tie oh gosh it was just horrible. You know blah blah blah blah.” Well those words cutoff the blessings that were just spoken over you in that service. So the people that have prophesied over me things that’s gonna be happening in the ministry I wake up in the morning and say “I bless Mark Chironna, I bless the Dixon’s, I bless these people that have prophesied over me” because I am expecting, you know a lot of those words have already come to pass…
Sid: So you’re saying you can cut-off true prophetic words from God by your judgments and condemnations?
Joan: You can also cut-off financial blessings.
Sid: Do you anyone that has reversed that and went from bad financial situations to good?
Joan: Yeah that girl that didn’t have a job for 4 months.
Sid: Well that’s true.
Joan: She was getting ready to lose her house and everything. This is really exciting, she renounced those words, she ask for forgiveness, then she renounced the words. She got a check given to her that day for $500, she got $300 worth of debit cards for gas and food all within 2 days after breaking that curse. She was able to pay her house payment, and then she had $300 given to her she was able to pay her utilities all immediately within 48 hours after she broke the words she had spoken negatively and she had forgiven her previous employer.
Sid: What about some other root issues such as self-hatred?
Joan: We can blame ourselves for so many things. When you start going inward and “Woe is me” thinking about yourself, “I am so stupid, I am so ugly, I am so fat” and those are words that were spoken over me and I started to believe them. Just started hating myself, and hating who I was, and hating the situation I was in. When you do that then it affects your immune system, you’re not happy; you end up and have physical conditions for example, I had an enlarged thyroid, been on thyroid medicine since I was a child. Then during my 20’s and 30’s, and into my 40’s I was on the highest dosed thyroid that you could be on. The thyroid gland growing which is called a goiter, and then when I got totally set free about 5 years ago in my heart, and free of the worry, and free of the forgiveness, and everything towards my ex-husband. My thyroid has gone down to almost normal and I’m on the very very lowest dose of thyroid right now. The doctors say I can stay off it if I want to, but I don’t have as much energy so I’m taking it just mainly for the energy because I need it. [Laughing] I think if I slept more I would probably need the thyroid, but that’s also you know another situation.
Sid: You know as I look through the various chapters in the workbook of yours that has all of these supernatural prayers that people can pray in all these different things from marriage problems, to physical problems, to emotional problems. This chapter 12 is very intriguing to me it’s titled “The Immune System and Electrical and Magnetic Frequencies” and you explain this. I’ve never seen this explained before anywhere, then you say how to pray that your body operates the way God wanted it to.
Joan: Yes, well see what happens is that our… and the chemicals and everything like that. Like you get food that’s not home-grown, you know, very few of us actually, I don’t grow our own food. The soil has been abused…
Sid: Well if you eat in restaurants like I do forget it. [Laughing]
Joan: Okay, I jokingly say, but it’s almost… it’s a slight exaggeration like you take a bite out of Tupperware, or take a bite out of a tomato. They’re about the same chemical and good for you because the vitamins have been depleted out of our food. So I take my MSM, my multivitamin, and my B’s and all that kind of stuff, and C’s every day to help compensate because I need to get the proper chemical balance in my life. This also applies for hormones, people that have male and female emotional ups and downs. The women especially like PMS and hot flashes and menopause, you command your hormones to be in proper balance and hot flashes stop instantly. By my age I should have gone through the change of life, the hot flashes all that kind of stuff, and I have not experienced any of that, none of it. I’m not expecting to and I’m 52 almost 53 years old, and I have not had a hot flash and I’m not going to. I’ve not had the mood swings that come with menopause, and I don’t have to because that’s part of the curse. The same thing goes with the electrical and magnetic frequencies because of earthquakes and so forth. Our earth itself has gotten out of kilter it’s not the perfect Garden of Eden anymore, and people have magnetic mattress covers and pillow cases, and bands and all that. They’re trying to return the electrical and magnetic frequencies the proper balance in their body, whereas we can pray for this…
Sid: It’s a whole lot cheaper.
Joan: It’s a whole lot cheaper you don’t have to remember to take your bracelet, and you don’t have to put your bracelet on, you don’t have to carry a 300 pound…
Sid: Listen I like the way you do it, whereas, time is slipping away.