Sid: My guest is so red hot for the Messiah, Perry Stone, that he has invested and it was an investment and it was for you; 80,000 hours of studying the Word of God. He totally demystifies the book of Revelation. For the first time in your life you will be excited about it because you’re going to understand it. You’re going to understand the symbolism; you’re going to understand end time events. And as a matter of fact Perry Stone there’s something that just seems to be so confusing to most Christians. And it’s got to do with the rapture; is it pre-trib, mid-trib; is it pre-wrath; there’s so many of these different views that are floating around. Many people say this whole pre-trib rapture was developed by some woman in the 1800′s. Let’s start out with basics; define what the rapture is. What does the word even mean?
Perry: Well one of the complaints that either you or I for example say “Well, it’s nowhere in the New Testament so you’re using a word that not in the Bible.” First of all we use theological words in English, trinity is not in the Bible; millennial reign is not in the Bible; 2nd coming is not in the Bible. They are terms that are not in the Bible that we use to identify certain scriptures and what they refer to; that’s point 1. Rapture comes from the Latin comes from the Latin translation of the Bible by St. Jerome. And it comes out of 1st Thessalonians 4. “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout; the voice of the archangel and the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. We which are alive and remain shall be (and here’s the phrase) caught up.” And in the Greek it’s harpazo which means to snatch up suddenly by force to cease out of dangers way. But when translating from Greek to Latin we came up with… it comes up with the English word translated from Latin rapture. To be caught up with joy; to be caught up ecstasy to be generally to be caught up. So he used that word. Now we use the English word. Now the Bible talks about the gathering together unto Him. It talks about the general assembly of the firstborn in heaven. I mean if people wanted to call the catching up and the gather together of the general assembly; or the gathering together; the catching up. Those terms are fine but we speak… we take one word that people generally know what you’re talking about when you say that word. The concept of it is in the Bible. It is when the dead in Christ are raised from mortal to immortality and the living saints are changed in a moment in a twinkling of an eye; the sound of the last trump. And together we are with the Lord not only in the air but we meet with Him in heaven. Because Jesus said in John 14 “If I go I will come again and receive you unto myself.” So He predicted this in His own ministry. So the idea about when the doctrine originated now this…
Sid: Now I’ve heard the 1800′s is that true?
Perry: No, in fact this idea where the people say “The catching away teaching is not found in any early fathers and it started in the 1800′s. In the Greek Orthodox Church; or the Orthodox Church a man named Ephraim the Syrian in the 5th century who was an early father in that branch of the church. And in “Cave of the Treasures” and in “Treaties of the Antichrist” he specially talks about the Lord coming before the tribulation. Because the Protestant Church came out of Roman Catholicism. A lot of the documents that we use are the early fathers from the Roman side. Which would be Origin, Portentous and these particular fathers, however, from the Greek side the Greek churches have the documents for years; and I’ve talked to guys that are 10 years scholars in the Orthodox Branch and they say “We have had a teaching in among the fathers of a return and a return before the tribulation.” So that’s a whole other issue there. But the point is “Where is it in the Bible?” Okay now let me have people follow me here very carefully. First of all the pattern of the rapture is Exodus 19 because everything revealed in the New Testament has a root somewhere in the Torah, the 5 books of Moses. Exodus 19 is Moses going on Mt. Sinai (notice the place) And it says “That there was lightning, thunder, smoke, voice of the trumpet, the “tikiah hagadolah” voice of the trumpet waxing louder and longer. Then it says and the Lord came down and Moses went up. So the pattern of the catching away and the Lord descending from heaven and the saints going up is Exodus 19. Now having said that come to the New Testament. The apostle Paul talks about after his conversion how he went into Arabia where he spent time receiving the revelation of Jesus Christ. He then tells you in chapter 3 Mt. Sinai is in Arabia. Now heres what happened. After Paul conversion he was going to be a preacher to the gentiles after he goes to Mt. Sinai in Arabia where Moses got the commandments and he received 7 revelations from Jesus Christ that nobody else had received. As a matter of fact in the New Testament… and we bring this out in the “Apocalypse Code” teachings that there were 7 revelations that Paul received. The revelation of Israel’s blindness in Revelation 11. The grafting in of the Gentiles. The Revelation of the… in the church. You know all these different revelations he got that alone and wrote about them in his letters. Now here’s what’s interesting; when Paul returned back to write his first letter according to scholars the 14 letters that Paul wrote if we assume that he wrote the book of Hebrews. And I believe he did, so these 14 epistles that Paul wrote of 14 letters the very first one just happens to be the 1st Thessalonica, Greece that was 1st Thessalonians. In our Bible in Bible in 1st Thessalonians is divided into 5 chapters. In each chapter he mentions the return of the Lord but in chapter 4 he gives a church a revelation that never been known to this level before. About the Lord descending from heaven and the saints being caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Now here’s a question Sid you’re going to love this. Why did the Lord wait until the Apostle Paul was called as a preacher to Gentiles to reveal the revelation of the catching away of the Church? And the answer is and I love this. In Acts 2 all the way to Acts right up to chapter 10 the Church was all Jewish because Gentiles had not yet been brought into the covenant. In Acts 10 the first Gentiles are brought into the covenant. So God waits until the church is both Jew and Gentile; you talked about the One New Man there He waits. And then in chapter 9 you have the conversion; you have chapter 9 the conversion of Saul of Tarsus the preacher to the Gentiles the Jewish Rabbi that was going to go to Mount Sinai to get the revelation of this rapture. And then after the Gentiles are grafted into the covenant in chapter 10 you suddenly see Paul preaching and he starts preaching to Jews and Gentiles about the Messiah revealing these revelations in these letters. So the first letter Paul wrote he reveals the catching away of the saints because he’d been on Mt. Sinai where the Lord had come down and Moses went up and received the law and now he’s receiving the revelation of the covenant and the message of the covenant. This is all in the book of Galatians in the same place where Moses received the Torah and revelation of the things of God. And so the rapture teaching, or the catching away teaching, was the very first thing that God taught the church and God waited. See Israel knew that there was coming a Messianic kingdom; they knew the King was going to come back to the earth. Zechariah said “His feet would come to the Mount of Olives. He would stand there and the Mount would split and the King would rule from Jerusalem.” The Jews already knew the Messiah was going to come back to rule on the earth. That was established throughout the Old Covenant, but what nobody realized was that there was going to be another return of which believers who believe in Christ would be resurrected; the dead in Christ and the saints of God would be changed to meet the Lord in the air. And then we would return after the judgment; the bemah; the marriage supper of the Lamb all of that takes place in heaven. And then we return with the King to the earth to fulfill the scriptures which were given to ancient Israel about their King Messiah. So Paul’s revelation actually came in the same place where Moses had received the Torah which is on Mount Sinai in Arabia. To me that just when I dug this out; Grant Jeffrey you knew Grant.
Sid: Of course.
Perry: He was a prophecy writer. Grant told me he said “Perry I’ve studies things all my life and never put that together till you taught it.”
Sid: You’ve put so many things together in your teaching on Revelation. But the big debate with many of my friends is not whether they’ll be a rapture. I mean that’s a no brainer; the big debate is it going to be before the tribulation; in the middle of the tribulation; just before the wrath. And then there’s dozens of other views. With your 80,000 hours of study what’s your conclusion?
Perry: Let’s just take one little nugget here and the early father’s agree on this. That the first 42 months of the tribulation 2 witnesses come. Some say Elijah and Moses; some say Elijah and Enoch. I’ll stick with Elijah and Enoch, but I don’t argue it. Elijah is definitely one of them based on Malachi 4:5. He will return the first 42 months as the 2 witness mentioned in Revelation 11. Now follow me carefully Revelation 11, 12 and 13 is the middle of the 7 year tribulation period. But in the middle of the 7 year tribulation period these 2 witnesses are killed. Now Sid; think for a moment you do not see the church in the book of Revelation after chapter 3. The word church, Ecclesia, is not mentioned anywhere from that point on. Now interesting enough in chapter 4 verse 1 there’s a transition. John hears a voice saying “Come up hither.” Hears a voice of a trumpet and immediately he’s in the Spirit at the throne room and there’s these elders and beasts are worshiping God. And then a multitude is crying out “You have redeemed us out of every nation.” That’s the church they have been caught up. But when you look at this how the book of Revelation is set up you discover that the church… Christ told the believers pray that you be accounted worthy to escape all of these things and to stand before the Son of Man. Now would we pray worthy to escape; escape what? And the answer is in beginning in chapter 6 of Revelation you see the tribulation judgments being poured out. Now let me go back to these 2 witnesses for a moment because it’s real interesting. If the church is still on earth the first 42 months of tribulation what is the necessity of 2 witnesses because they are the only ones declaring the gospel. They’re the only ones on earth preaching the gospel these 2 men. Now if the church is still here we should be preaching because we’re supposed to preach and then the end come according to Matthew 24:14. The second thing is when the 2 witnesses are killed and raised back up to God in heaven then the last 42 months of tribulation begins. And it says an angel comes down from heaven preaching the everlasting gospel and warning people not to take the mark; an angel. So where’s the church? How come the church is not warning people?
Sid: Whoops I’ll give everyone a warning we’re out of time right now.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Pastor Charles Cowan he’s pastor of the 2000 member church in Nashville, Tennessee called Faith Is The Victory Church. We’re interviewing him this week on his brand new book called “How to Deal With the Cares of Life.” And before we went on the air Pastor Charles you started talking about the need for us to be in position and ready, explain.
Charles: This is a crucial hour as we all know for the Body of Christ in the earth today. This is a time that the harvest that God is going to make a sweep across the world and through the nations of the world and bring the nations of the world into the Kingdom of God. Now how that affects every child of God is this is that every child of God has been given from God something that they are to supply to the Body of Christ that will aid in this end-time harvest and move of God. So they have to be ready. I remember one time and talking about being ready that I pulled out a new Bible and my old one had you know had just about worn it out and I had all of the writings and things on the margins of my Bible like we do. So I pulled out this new Bible and I drove up to Louisville, Kentucky my wife and I did my wife and I did. We went up there to be in a meeting with Brother Kenneth Hagin or to be in attendance at the meeting. So when I got up there that day and walked in and Brother Hagin saw me I went up and I greeted him. And he said to me “Well when you walked in here today into this meeting today and I saw you” and he said “The Spirit of God spoke to me and told me to have you teach in this afternoon’s service.”
Charles: Well, I got a brand new Bible; I didn’t bring a note one and I don’t have anything written in the margins of this new Bible; in fact the pages are still stuck together.
Sid: I’ve been in that position I know.
Charles: And I said to him “Brother Hagin are you sure?” And he said “Yes, I’m sure.” So we chatted a little bit and then I said to him again “Now Brother Hagin are you sure?” And he said “Charles if I were not sure I would not have asked you.” So it was right then that I had to be ready to face what it was that he had asked me to do and had to be ready to do it. Well you see that true in every area. Had I not been in prayer and in study the days or the weeks you see prior to that week going up to that meeting there I might not had been a position; I would not had been ready you see. But because of what I had prepared myself thought study and prayer and seeking God and that kind of thing then I was ready for the moment; I was ready for what God put in front of me right then and there. So I got up there and I just began to take a scripture and I began to teach in the Spirit of God brought the anointing in there and thank God He came through and it was fine. And you know the anointing was flowing and everything worked out because I was ready. Now here’s the thing about it today, people in the Body of Christ now they may not be a minister but they have something to supply to the Body of Christ in this hour. They need to be ready like I was ready at that time through their preparation and prayer.
Sid: It reminds me of a woman that I interviewed that was just doing grocery shopping or shopping at a store and she goes to her car and all of a sudden there’s a gun in her ribs. I mean how are you ready for something like that? If you’re not ready you’re not ready.
Charles: Oh, I’m telling you. It’s like I have a missionary friend who was a missionary down in Mexico at the time and he had his… He was driving his van and someone when he stopped at a stop sign someone just opened the door and got in the Van with him and put a gun in his ribs and told him where to go where to drive. So he had him to drive out of town into a vacant field, or lot, and told him to get out of the van. And he got out of the van and he told him to walk around to the front and he met this missionary in the front of the van and put this gun almost touching him between the eyes, not quite. And was going to… and pulled the trigger on that thing. And this missionary said that when that bullet came out of the end of the barrel of that gun it dropped immediately and fell to the ground. He was ready he knew that no weapon formed against him would prosper. Now you’ve got to be ready in a time like that because fear will absolutely just demoralize you at that point and time that you are looking down the barrel of a revolver. And that guy you know he means business he’s going to pull that trigger. If you don’t know you’re ready; I’m not just talking about ready to go the heaven that’s obviously very very that’s right on top of the list. But if you’re not ready to confront a thing like that fear will totally dislodge you off of the word of God and you will then not be able to come though those things in that victorious way. But he said that bullet came out of that thing and fell to the ground and he said it so terrorized or scared the man that did that that the man took off running and ran out of that field back up onto the road and left him there with his van. God had delivered him because he was ready for the moment. That’s what we need to be here in this hour because we’re confronted with the terrorism that our nation, that the world is confronted with we need to be ready at all times at whatever situation or circumstance that we might find ourselves in. Or whatever God tells us to do, we need to be ready to face it we need to be ready to do it it’s a crucial hour. I believe that God wants to use every person under the sound of our voice today; every person in the Body of Christ God want has something for them to do. It has something that He’s placed within them to give to the Body of Christ to help compact and knit it together and make it to be the powerful powerful thing that it is in the world.
Sid: But that’s why you wrote this book because you explain that if we don’t deal properly with the cares of life it will put us out of position to be used in our destiny.
Charles: Yes, and see what people have to understand is that I cannot supply to the Body what God has placed in them to give to the Body. I can only supply what God has given to me; and with all of us working together and moving together and learning how to deal with cares of life, or learning how to deal with the pressures. Learning how to deal with the stress that wants to come until we’re able to do that we’re not going to be able to give the Body of Christ what God has placed within us through your ministry and through your radio through your television ministry and the other facets of your ministry. You’re giving to the Body of Christ what I could never give to the Body of Christ; but you’re giving it because you’re ready. You are prepared for the moment for this time; you know how to deal with all of the pressures that come to you. And you know this we all know this pressures and cares in ministry come to us all. Just because we are ministers or have a ministry does not exclude us or eliminate us from cares or pressures and things that we can worry about if we could allow ourselves to do it. But yet we have to keep ourselves ready so that the ministry that God’s placed us in will not suffer because of our lack of readiness to carry forth the assignment that God has given to us. So we are ready to deal with whatever it is that Satan would bring against us to subvert, to undermine, and to destroy what God has called us to do in the earth at this time. Every voice of God, not just a few, but every voice of God is critical in this hour because you are reaching people today; this broadcast is reaching people today that other ministry and other ministers cannot reach because God has assigned this to you to reach these people that you’re reaching today and we have to be ready in this hours. We cannot fail and we will not fail and we will be ready in this hour and in this time. And we’re going to have to do it by learning how to deal with the cares of life. Not coping with the cares of life but dealing with them from the standpoint of God’s word and God’s power so that He can elevate us above them so that we can accomplish everything that God has assigned us to do, called us to do, equipped us to do. And I believe that the Body of Christ is rising to that place today and I believe that we once again are going to have the voice in the world that God intended the Body of Christ to have. We’re going to have that type of influence in these times in these days that we live.
Sid: You know Charles we’re out of time again; thank you so much for being my guest.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone at his home in Lexington, South Carolina is William Morford he’s the translator what is rapidly becoming my favorite reading New Testament, it’s called “The Power New Testament” subtitle “Revealing Jewish Roots.” Because there are Hebrew Idioms to what Jesus was saying. And then the way Bill you brought out the tenses as I read and it’s in modern English, the whole thing becomes maybe you should call it “The Alive New Testament.”
Sid: Rather than “The Power New Testament.” Why is it that the other Bibles don’t capture this?
Bill: I certainly don’t understand it because when you take Greek this is the way you’re told that it should be translated. But when the others translate it they leave out the extra punch that’s there in the Greek.
Sid: How did you first get attracted? I know how you got attracted to the Greek, but how did you even. I mean the average Christian doesn’t know these idioms, these Hebrewisms. How did you understand this, how did you learn this?
Bill: I went to a Rabbi… we moved to Lakeland, Florida just before I started before the Lord told me to get serious in translating. And we moved there just to… because we felt that that’s where the Lord wanted us. We didn’t know anyone in Lakeland, but we felt that He put me in touch with a Messianic Rabbi so I could get Hebrew references that I needed. After we got to Lakeland we found out that there was no Messianic Rabbi there, but there was Rabbi Eliezer Ben-Yehuda a Jewish Rabbi who was a great help. Personally going through scripture with me and giving me reference books.
Sid: And for those that are tuning in for the first time this particular Rabbi’s grandfather was the single person that pioneered Hebrew to be a modern speaking language in Israel. And actually came up with many of the words so you could not have found a better teacher Bill.
Bill: Right, certainly not and what made him even better than his scholarship was his attitude and his helpfulness. And he feels that part of his call is to be a bridge between Christians and Jews. So he was very helpful. We’ve became very good friends. And we’ve been to their home for Pesach, or Passover, and for other feasts days it’s really wonderful.
Sid: Bill, I want you to teach some of the things that I’ve been gleaning from reading your “Power New Testament.”
Bill: Okay, let’s start at Acts 18 with the first verse that says “Paul going to Corinth after these things he left from Athens and went to Corinth and when he found a certain Jewish man name Aquila a native of Pontus who came recently from who came recently from Italy with Priscilla his wife, because of the order of Claudius to separate all the Jewish people from Rome, Paul came to them and because they were in the same trade he was staying with them and he was working. For they all were prayer shawl makers by trade. And he was discussing in the synagogue…
Sid: Wait a second, my Bible says “Tentmakers.”
Bill: Well, they say that but that’s not right. The word that’s translated tentmaker is “skenopoios” and it does not appear in any other Greek writing anywhere. So whether it was commonly used by the Jewish people in those days or not whether Luke just made it up we don’t know. But we do know that a man named Bauer who did the Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich Greek-English Lexicon this is over a hundred years ago. He wrote a whole column on that one word and concluded that he didn’t know what it was, but that it was something that required technical training. The technical training that we know all three had was rabbinic training. And that was required to make prayer shawl.
Sid: So you believe that Paul’s tent making, so to speak, was making tallits, prayer shawls.
Sid: By the way you have some fascinating information about the prayer shawl. For instance when the woman with the issue of blood reached out to touch the garment of Jesus, you don’t call it a garment do you. What do you call it?
Bill: That’s the prayer shawl.
Sid: And why was that so important and you explain this in your footnotes. “When she reached out to touch the fringes of the prayer shawl.
Bill: Well the fringe, the tseetseet is the Hebrew word. The reason it was made is given in the 15 chapter of Numbers and it was made that all could look upon it and remember all the commandments and promises of God. So that when she touched that she knew that on a holy man of God that that fringe represented all the commandments and all the promises for her, and those promises included her healing. For the Lord said “I am the Lord your healer.” Way back in the wilderness he said that.
Sid: Now I just have a vision of someone putting the prayer shawl on that’s in dire need of being healed. And when they grab hold of the fringes and I know that this is just a point of contact but there’s something so supernatural about the prayer shawl that when you grab hold of the fringes of the prayer shawl you’re grabbing hold of every promise in God’s word having to do with healing. That’s exactly what that woman with that issue of blood did.
Bill: Absolutely, no question about it.
Sid: Okay, if you would teach further.
Bill: Well there’s a another meaning to it; of course well, before I get to the next meaning, I want to say on the fringe the Greek work is consistent in using… in referring to the fringe. It’s Kraspedon and it just means fringe, it never meant hem or anything like it.
Sid: Well, where did we get hem from; rather than fringe?
Bill: Who knows you’ll have to wait until you get to heaven and ask those that…
Sid: They did not… you know what it was the translators were great Greek scholars but they didn’t know their Jewish roots. And let’s face it the New Testament was written for Jews in a Jewish nation by Jews. I mean what do you expect give me a break you know.
Bill: (Laughing) Exactly. You’re right you know. And the other thing that I was going to get to in a different meaning that has been confirmed by using the Septuagint. And that’s in 1st Corinthians 11 getting down I want to read that whole paragraph. But I’ll start with verse 14 “Does not nature teach you this that the man on the one hand has long hair it’s a disgrace to him.” And of course that was the custom in the Roman Empire in the lst Century that men wore very short hair. But on the other hand for a woman it is her glory. Because the hair was given to her as an ornament in place of a prayer shawl. And the word translated prayer shawl there is the same word that’s used in the Septuagint for prayer shawl in Deuteronomy 22:12.
Sid: So you mean these woman that cut their hair to the point where you can barely see they have any hair today they’re not reflecting the prayer shawl.
Sid: (Laughing) Is that what the word is saying?
Sid: I’m going to get into trouble. I better watch out.
Bill: Exactly right well, woman wear prayer shawls today. And it’s a question of hair custom in the first century on that. And I know that in conservative synagogues woman use prayer shawls.
Sid: And by the way I get questions all the time from woman that says “Is it acceptable for me to put on a prayer shawl and pray?” And the answer is “You are free.”
Sid: You are a free person and if that’s going to enhance your worship of God and your prayer and your communion with God go for it.
Bill: See the command is to put it on the corners of a square or a rectangular garment. And the prayer shawl in the wilderness was their outer garment. And the 1st Century Israel it was their outer garment that they still had and is more like a poncho with a whole cut in the middle. In fact, the description of Jesus garment in John 19 that the soldiers cast lots for that fits the garment that was worn in the wilderness. The poncho like garment and the fringes were placed on the corners. And in fact a recent issue of Biblical Archeology Review had pictures taken in Jerusalem in the mid nineteenth century and there was several people in those pictures who were wearing garments that were not quite like the poncho but were very similar. And there’s no question that that’s what it was. And Rabbi Ben-Yehuda told me that a number of those garments dating back to roughly the 1st century have been uncovered by modern archeology. But again we are free. There is nothing in the commandment to put the fringes on the garment that says “Only men could wear those garments.” It was just put the fringes on the garment and that garment described what the men were wearing at that time.
Sid: Bill just out of curiosity because you bring out these idioms that there is no way of understanding the Jewish roots of the faith. By you call it “The Power New Testament” because you bring out the tenses. It becomes so alive. I mean I am so excited about this translation. What feedback are you getting not from someone like me that comes from a Jewish background but someone that’s never been taught these things when they read your “Power New Testament” for the first time, what do they say to you?
Bill: We have a stack of letters people just saying how much it’s opened things up for them. I got a letter from a pastor in Michigan just recently just said “Wow!”
Sid: We’re out of time right now Bill.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to so yield to God that He would really be Lord in your body in your life, in your family; in your home, in your congregation, and in our nation. I have Dr. Michael Brown because the devils making an end run and he’s trying to put in what called “The Hyper-grace” message. It’s pervasive in the church today and Mike you know there are many people that are saying “God is always in a good mood.” What Bible are they reading?
Michael: Yeah, and I have a whole chapter in my “Hyper-Grace” book that asks that question and “Is God always in a good mood?” And so there are friends of mine, ministry colleagues, folks I love that I honor and respect that use this phrase “God is always in a good mood.” What they mean by it is He’s not moody, it’s not like “Ah, I crossed Him today He’s not… stay away from dad he’s hung over; he’s got drunk last night. Ah, Mom’s not in a good mood she’s touchy.” No God’s not like that, God’s disposition towards us always is He wants to bless, He’s always long suffering, He’s kindhearted He’s not fickle in His love. In that sense they want people “Oh no there’s a thunderstorm God’s mad at me. Oh, no he’s an ogre today; He’s nice tomorrow.” Some people project bad images of their bad drunken earthly father back on God. They want to deliver them from that and let them know you want to know God’s disposition there is wonderful truth to it. But there’s so much of the Hyper-grace message it’s part of the truth and it leaves out other extremely important truths. So, was God in a good mood when Genesis 6 when His heart was so grieved at human sin that he had to wipe out the earth? Was He laughing and high fiving it with the angels when He wiped out every human being on the planet? Was Jesus who was the image of the Father in a good mood when He wept over Jerusalem because of the coming destruction? Will He be in a good mood when He comes back in flaming fire taking vengeance on those that don’t know God? Ephesians 4 tells us “Not to grieve the Spirit.” Isaiah 63 talks about grieving the Spirit. Is God in a good mood when we grieve Him? Hey here’s a question, “If we don’t understand God’s grace and are constantly under bondage and thinking we have to work harder to half to please God. Is God in a good mood about that? Basilea Schlink who was a godly Christian leader in Nazi Germany stood up against the Nazi’s and is one of the greatest lovers of Israel in modern times in the church. She said, “Anyone who loves as much as God does must suffer, must feel pain. How can you be a loving Father and see the pain the pain and the suffering of the human race and not be hurt, not be grieved over it.” And so on the one hand in the presence is fullness of joy in His presence is joy and that joy is our strength. There’s rejoicing every time a sinner repents. So on the one hand in God’s presence it must be the most exquisite joy imaginable at the same time God is multidimensional. Throughout the scriptures He speaks of grieving of His heart being in pain. Jesus is a man acquainted with grief and pain and carried the burden of human sickness and sin. So it’s a distorted message as if no matter what happens. Here a beloved pastor gets seduced by sin and commits adultery and brings terrible reproach to the Name of the Lord and believers backslide over this because they’re so shattered by what the man of God did that they look too they lose faith in Jesus. “Is God in a good mood or what? Ha, ha check that out he just defiled the Name of Jesus and destroyed the church and hurt my reputation before the whole world.” There’s something very superficial the way it’s presented. That concerns you “Is He loving and kind; and merciful and is He good all the time, all the time good? Yes. Is He always in a good mood? That’s a distorted statement. The truth of His disposition towards us, yes, the distorted error – sin you’ve got to expose it…
Sid: Okay, that begs a question. I’ve had people on my show and I might add I agree with them that have shown that when the United States goes against Israel does something pro-homosexual; does something murdering the babies in the womb that there are warning judgments that occur. Do you think that there just coincidences or do you believe that God could do such a thing?
Michael: Of course He can. Of course I can’t speak for every individual instance. God is not in a good mood over 55 million babies that have been killed in the womb in America. And judgment is the love of God, judgment is a wake-up call. How many times in our own lives has divine chastisement been a God send because; we were making a mistake; we were getting proud or we were deviating from our calling. And God in His love brought that in; 1st Peter 4 “Judgment begins with the House of God.” Hebrews 12 “God disciplines every son He receives.” Of course there is and then in the New Testament we have Acts of divine judgment; Jesus warning about judgment on Jerusalem. Acts 12 Herod smitten down by the Angel of the Lord for sin. Revelation 2 Jesus saying to Thyatira “If you don’t repent I’m going to bring these judgments on you and your children.” It’s the love of God calling us to repent and hyper-grace teachers have to throw those verses out too.
Sid: Okay, I want you to explain true Biblical grace.
Michael: What a subject Sid. Here’s where it starts “While we were yet sinners Messiah died for us.” We sinned He died. We were guilty He was punished. We rejected God He reached out to us. We deserve eternal punishment, He accepts us as sons and daughters. Sid I start my book with a chapter called “Why I love the message of grace.” I end my book on the chapter of the finished work of the cross. Think of it all the sins that we have ever committed if we wrote them on a piece of paper, if we could remember everyone, every thought, every deed. Each of us would fill a stadium with the pieces of paper. Right? Jesus in His perfect righteousness pays for every sin that everyone has ever committed. And the day that we put our trust in Him and say “God forgive me. God wash me.” At that moment God forgets what we’ve done; at that moment He says you are My son and My daughter. Not you are in the apprentice school to become a son or a daughter. Not after 5 years of hard work you enter; no at that moment God says to Sid Roth you are My son, I love you I’m pleased to do it. At that moment He declares your righteous; at that moment He declares you clean; at that moment He declares you Saint, Saint Sid. At that moment, and now His grace come into our heart; it’s not just something that happened. It’s on going; grace is not only unmerited favor; grace is not only God’s riches at Christ’s expense. God’s grace is His ongoing favor and help on our behalf. So here’s what happens God now by His spirit comes to live inside of you and He puts desires to please Him inside of you. And He puts His sensitivity to sin inside of you. So now it becomes your nature to do the will of God. It becomes your nature to please God and here’s the thing John 13 Jesus is with His disciples He’s going to wash their feet. Servants work He’s the Master at work He’s going to wash their feet. Peter says “You’re never going to wash my feet!” Jesus says “If I don’t wash your feet you have no part in Me.” And so Peter being zealous says “Then I want a bath. You can do everything head, toe.”
Michael: And Jesus says “No, no no, the one who has been bathed does not need to go and get bathed again just have his feet washed.” Why? Because in the ancient world you didn’t have showers and bathtubs in your house; you didn’t have running water in your house. So if you were going to bathe you either went to the river or to the public bathhouse. You’d bathe there and then you’d walk home. Well, not all the roads were paved many places had no pavement at all and by the time that you get home your feet are dirty. “Oh, no my feet are dirty, I got to go back to the bathhouse. Oh man, I’ve got to go back to the altar at that church where I got saved. Oh man I’ve got to get saved again.” Oh no, no you are saved; you’re set apart as holy you’re God’s child. Unless you willfully reject Him and push Him away you’re His child. You’re His child on a bad day, you’re His child on a good day. You’re His child when you’re overcoming. It’s only if I blatantly turn my back on God walk away from Him and deny Him, or refuse to repent of sin. So what happens as a believer 1st John 1:7 what does it say? “If we walk with him, if we walk in the light we have fellows with one another and the blood of Jesus ‘God’s Son cleanses us from all sin.’” Hang on it says “If I walk in the light.” Where’s their sin? Well, we’re still not perfect, we hate sin, we work against sin with the Spirit; we renounce it; we never justify it; we never take it lightly. We’re not perfect. As we walk in the light that means when I recognize when I ask forgiveness that means when I recognize and I turn from it that means when I recognize it I don’t justify it. As I walk in the light my feet are getting clean all the time. I don’t need to go back and get saved again. I don’t need to go back to the bathhouse and that happens on a daily basis.
Sid: Mike very quickly I believe there are many listening that need to repent, turn form their sins and turn to this marvelous gift from God called grace for the power to overcome. Would you pray for them right now?
Michael: Father, I pray right now in Jesus Name; in the Name of Yeshua for a supernatural revelation of grace that people would be delivered from legalistic striving. That people would be delivered from fighting sin and the power of the flesh. That people would be delivered from a wrong view of You Father as if You are hateful and vengeful and out to get them. May there be such a revelation of forgiven, clean, righteous through the blood that they throw off the shackles of sin. That they through off the shackles of deception. Lord for those who have been deceived by a hyper-grace message and are playing with sin I pray that holy conviction that loving conviction would flood their hearts that they renounce that sin and turn to You to be cleansed afresh to turn to you and be refreshed and serve You in wholeness. Father, may grace flood the life of every listener right now in the Yeshua’s Name.
Sid: I just got a hold of a brand new book it’s called “How to Deal With the Cares of Life” by Pastor Charles Cowan. He is Pastor of Faith Is The Victory Church in Nashville, Tennessee. I’ve got a copy of this book in my hand and let me read you a couple of excerpts from the introduction:
“We’re living in the greatest moment of the Body of Messiah we will know in the earth; for this is the day of the end-time harvest when millions of souls will be swept into the Kingdom of God. Signs, wonders and miracles of God’s power and might will be confirming the Holy Scriptures of God. And if you are in your place (Oh is that is an important statement let me read it again.) If you are in your place He is going to use you in a way that you never dreamed possible. We are the generation that will see the coming of the Lord. Today Satan is trying to overcharge you with the cares of this life so that God’s power can’t flow through you. He wants to keep you stressed out. My purpose in writing this book is to set forth spiritual principals that will help you resist the cares of life. By following these Biblical truths you will be strengthened and empowered to triumph, you can live above the pressures of life. And the truth of the matter is, whether you’re not a believer, whether you’re a believer, whether you’ve been a believer for a long time you know that you’re doing the opposite of what Jesus says ‘Worry for nothing.’”
I believe that there are keys like light bulbs going off that you’re going to hear this week. My guest as I said is Pastor Charles Cowan. I’m speaking to him at his office in Nashville, Tennessee. Charles, I have to tell you that when I started reading this book I said… well now I’ve been a believer now for a little over 30 years but there are keys that all of us have to start operating in because if there’s ever been a time of turning up the pressure so that we, the Body, will not be in our right place I think that’s what the devil’s doing right now.
Charles: Well, it sure is. And Sid let me say it’s really nice to be with you and on your program today and thank you for that. But you know today there has never been a day as I have seen as today where Satan is trying to displace the child of God. Get them out of their place and out of their position and to keep them from being you know where God wants them and needs them to be as He begins to bring in this great harvest of this end-time. And you know when you look across the world today and you see just in the world today a magnitude of stress. People are perplexed; they are operating in fear of what will happen; they are fearful of the political scene; they are fearful of the religious scene; they’re laden with care. And many of these people sit in churches Sunday after Sunday after Sunday so distracted with these cares, these worries, these fears that they can’t even give their attention to what is being administered from the pulpit; what is being taught or what’s being preached. And often times they will leave the services not even remembering, or knowing, or realizing what has been said that can help their lives because they are so focused in their thought life on what they are dealing with.
Sid: You know most doctors today when they don’t know the cause of a particular physical problem they say “It’s stress related.” Why don’t we define some terms; what do you mean by stress?
Charles: Stress is where some external thing, something from the outside; when I say from the outside not from within the spirit of man but from some circumstance outside comes to bare upon them and so squeezes them until that they, especially the Christian, until they cannot think straight as they ought to think. Pressure, it brings to them a feeling of helplessness, a feeling sometimes of hopelessness. Satan continues to screw that pressure down on them until they lose their senses of what God has to say in His word. In other words they lose their spiritual senses they’re looking at the circumstances. The external situations that have brought this pressure to them; which are saying to them there is no way for you to get out of this; there is no hope for you; there is nothing anyone can do for you and he just keeps tightening that pressure down. And they’re frightened out of their spiritual senses, or the senses of the word of God that they may have had through mediation in reading the word themselves. So that pressure is there to force them to think in line with that external circumstance.
Sid: You know I happen to believe that a great deal of sickness doctors say it’s stress related. And you know what, it is because you’re body gets so removed from the invisible laws of the universe; the word of God. That you’re blood pressure goes up; and a lot of New Age people advocate meditation in New Age principals it actually lowers blood pressure. But the Bible says that’s against God’s policy, however, I happen to believe it’s a counterfeit of something authentic.
Charles: Well it is Sid because you know that if you get a person of thinking just in the natural. If you get them to thinking about something else beside their worries, or the fear or the pressures that have come that in itself has a stimulus on the body and can affect you know like you say “A reduction or an increase of one’s blood pressure.” But just to think about it and reduce that does not eliminate the problem. It addresses the symptom momentarily and it’s only the word of God that has the life of God in it. Jesus said “The words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life.” And so God when He gave His word; all scriptures are given by inspiration of God. That means God breathed His life; His Spirit into His word. And when a person lifts that word off the pages of the Bible through meditation of the Holy Scriptures and reading of the Holy Scriptures they’re taking words into themselves that has the very life and the very power and the very ability of God in it. When they apply that type of thinking and those kinds of words against the external circumstances and forces that come against them, then the very life of God is at work in them now not only to address the symptom of the problem but to address the problem at its root cause. That is, that Satin has come to steal, to kill, and to destroy. And one of his major, major weapons or tools that he uses is fear of people or placing the thoughts in the minds of the people that this thing is going to take you down. You’re not going to be able to get over this; you’re not going to be able to win. And so the word of God will address not only the symptoms of the problem but it will go to the root cause of the problem and cause that person to be delivered from that particular situation. Whereas, in the medical world, and we thank God for all that the medical world does in helping people we certainly do not demean that in any sense of the word. But what they do so many times what they do is they medicate the problem, they give prescriptions. And what it does many times that medication instead of helping the person it puts them into a downward spiral or a stupor as it were. Many times brings them to the place that they’re not even able to function as they should, could, or would in life. You see, God He takes His word, you know the word of God is medicine and is health to all of our flesh. And the word of God then like a medicine goes beyond the systems and gets down into the very root of the problem and begins to eliminate it and not just medicate it; not just put a Band-Aid on it. But it actually helps to deliver us and set us free. And that’s what Jesus came to do.
Sid: Well you know one of the things that I’ve been pondering a lot lately is that there is some techniques in psychology that allow you to control your problem so it doesn’t get out of control. But there’s something better than control, it’s freedom.
Charles: Well see what people often do in my experience is that those types of things helps them to cope with the problem. Jesus didn’t come, nor did God give His word for us to cope with our problem. He came to give us deliverance from our problem and deliver us out of all of our troubles, or our problems. So we learn… people learn to cope or in other words to manage their problem; but they never get rid of what’s causing the problem. Many times they don’t even know what’s causing the problem. They just know that they have these emotions; they have these feeling and Satan just batters them then with things then in the natural world around them that just further causes those feelings and those emotions that they have just to run their thinking way out on the far edges of “There’s nothing I can do; there’s no hope for me; how am I going to get out of this.”
Sid: Charles, we’re out of time right now we’ll pick up here on tomorrows broadcast.