SID: You know Eddie, when you were doing that last song, “As a Deer,” what was really going on inside of you? Tell me if you can.
EDDIE: He really is the longing of my heart. He’s accomplished a real—
SID: People don’t know this, but you alone, I mean, eight hours a day, studying the Word, worshiping, is this what goes on when there’s just an audience of one, just God?
EDDIE: Yes. And this is what makes this sometimes difficult to do in public because this is what happens to me when I’m by myself with God. It’s really intimate. It’s really special, you know. He takes you into that, you know, secret place with him. You can have an appropriate expression, but it’s very powerful when it’s you and God. And I’ve been touched in that place. And when I do this, I relive that moment when He just, I’m just so full of His goodness right now, His, it’s like a river of living water springing up in my soul. And I just encourage everyone that’s watching this, you can have what I’m sensing right now in your home, wherever you’re at, in your car. He will visit you and it will be this real. When He comes, He makes a difference. When He shows up it is really supernatural. It is really powerful. And so when I say I yearn for you, when I say I long for you, that’s not just buzz words in charismatic Pentecostal circles, it’s the cry of my soul. Is there anybody here saying, it’s the cry of my soul. It’s the cry of my soul. I don’t want church as usual, the fake stuff. I want the real deal.
SID: You know what? It’s not just Eddie that wants the real deal? I want the real deal.
SID: You want the real deal? You want the real deal. I tell you, you want the real deal. Aren’t you tired of playing games?
SID: Don’t you want to know what life is all about? This is eternal life that you might know him.
EDDIE: Yes, yes.
SID: This is eternal life that you might know him and there is no other name given unto men in which we must be saved, but the name of Jesus. Eddie, put yourself, just you and God, and the piano, and minister to God right now. Would you do that?
EDDIE: Yes sir. [music, singing]: Let it rain, let it rain. Open the floodgates of Heaven. Let it rain, let it rain. Open the floodgates of Heaven. Lord, we need rain. Let it rain. We are longing for your presence. We are longing to see your face. Nothing else will do, no one else will do. We want you. We want you Jesus. Our hearts are long for you, Jesus. Pour your spirit, God. Let your presence come Lord. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is real, there is liberty. There is power where your presence is. There is joy where your spirit is. We need your presence, Jesus. We are hungry for you. We are hungry for you, Lord. We are hungry for you. We are longing for you. In the cry of people, God, we want you more than life itself. We’re tired of religious games. We’re tired of plastic things. We want more. We want more of you, Jesus. Open the floodgates of Heaven. Pour out your presence, Jesus, for we need healing…
Sid: I’ve got a man that’s red hot for the Messiah because to him who has been forgiven much they love much. I’m speaking to Keith Clark in Tampa Florida. He is prayer director for “Set Free Ministries.” My friend Molly D’Andrea said it up… true accounts of those that have been liberated from pornography, sexual addiction, masturbation, rape, molestation, incest, lesbianism, homosexuality. And you say “Sid why would a Christian want to be set free from these things?” Well the question is “Are they a Christian really or are they just attending church.” And number two “Jesus came to set the captives free.” Now Keith so we can have a little bit of your background, when you were raised you were a practicing homosexual and up until say maybe junior high school you didn’t think anything was wrong about that.
Keith: That’s right I thought it was normal and I thought that nothing was wrong with it at all until one day I heard my mother talk about gay people and describe what they were and what they did and how sick they were. Then I realized that I was a pretty sick weird person.
Sid: Did you hate yourself?
Keith: I had hated myself from the beginning because of the molestation that was done to me as a child. I did not know exactly what it was, didn’t like it but yet there was part of me that did like it. And there was fulfillment there because it was love from a man that I did not receive from an abusive alcoholic father.
Sid: And in high school, or actually junior high school, you got into drugs and you were actually kicked out of school in the 8th grade. Did you… we’re you able to go back?
Keith: No, they actually kicked me out of all public schools and told me I was no longer fit to be teachable or could no longer attend any of the Michigan schools. I was able to go back when they open up a school of choice which was for people with problems and I was able to go back there but that was a drug infested place too. So I really didn’t learn too much.
Sid: Now as a young child you accepted the Lord but when did you first find out that it was a deep sin that you could go to hell for by being homosexual?
Keith: Well I accepted Jesus Christ at 7 years old and He became my best friend and I started praying to Him from that time forth. My parents did have an experience with God and we did learn a lot about God within a few years. There was something inside of me that kept telling me that there was something wrong with the activity that I was pursuing. So I did go an speak to whom I thought was a man of God that was a pastor he was a Baptist pastor and told him what my problem was. Told him what had happened to me and he basically told me that there was no hope for me, that I would die and go to hell and that there was no redemption or repentance for people like me.
Sid: Well when you heard that what did you do?
Keith: At that time I proceeded to hate myself, I proceeded to realize that I was a failure in life because homosexuality was not accepted at all in them days. I also realized that I was not accepted in the Kingdom of God so there was no acceptance for me, so I was a misfit.
Sid: Well there are such things as gay or homosexual churches and I’ve met people that go to these churches and they think that they’re okay. Did you go to them?
Keith: Yes, I most certainly did. I had a friend that went to one and that friend also went to a gay bar. And that friend introduced me to both of those places and when I first went it was like a born again experience because I was amongst my kind so I thought. Then was taught that homosexuality was a chosen life, it was a life given by God that we were chosen special people and that we really had a call on our life and that we had a way to God that no one else had. Then I proceeded to study that and realized though at the same time in my heart that this just did not make sense, that this just did not feel comfortable. Getting involved with the Gay coalition and things like that and starting to come out of my shell and accepting the fact that I was a homosexual. Then all of a sudden I read the word of God. And I read in Romans where it said that such were and in Corinthians where it says “And such were some of you that you’ve been washed, you’ve been cleansed.” And I realized if such as some of you then what is going on here, I’d been told it was a wonderful thing and that God loved us then why was God condemning it. Why was God saying that any of these people who practice such sins shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Which brought me into a mass of confusion.
Sid: Now let me ask you something, “Did you actually think you were a woman in a man’s body?
Keith: Not at first, at first I thought I had met a cousin’s friend of mine who was a man who was proceeding to have surgery to become a woman. I knew that I like the sexual activity and I was confused totally about that. But as the perversion got stronger and stronger the feminality part of me came out more and more and overtook the masculinity, and I became more under the influence and deception that maybe I was a woman trapped in a man’s body.
Sid: Now you were actually a drag queen and you went into male prostitution but you must have been the most miserable of people realizing that God forbid homosexuality and you loved God. And so what did you do about it?
Keith: Well I did a lot of crying, I did a lot of drugs. Drugs was my escape, I got to the point where I was doing somewhere from 3 to $400 of cocaine mainlining it every day. Selling my body to pay for the drugs, doing drag shows and everything I could in order to have money for drugs. At the same time falling on my knees on the corner as a male prostitute screaming out “Jesus, please if You’re there, if You’re there send somebody to please help me.”
Sid: Now why didn’t you just go to a church and have a pastor pray for your deliverance and get set free?
Keith: I had gone 2 or 3 times and I was told different stories that I could accept it in and not be in the activity and I would by okay. I was also told, like I said earlier, that there was no way for me to find redemption or salvation and I was just not accepted into the churches. As soon as someone found out that I was gay I was treated as someone who had a disease.
Sid: Hmm. So you got to the point where you tried to commit suicide with PCP drugs.
Keith: Right, I had taken 105 hits of PCP and went into a coma, lapsed into a coma, was in the coma for over 24 hours. They told my parents that I would be a vegetable for the rest of my life if I did come back. I did come back, did not know anything had to be retaught how to feed myself, didn’t know my name, didn’t know anybody. And God just seemed to have a plan when I was in the coma and dying and going to hell I had a vision of that experience and a vision of hell and God spoke out…
Sid: Let me ask you “What did… can recall what hell looked like in a vision?”
Keith: The only thing that I’d seen, it was not so much what I’d seen as what I felt. I felt total separation and darkness, coldness, total separation, nobody, nobody there. I would scream out and there would be nobody there. I could hear the word of God though, I could always hear the word of God and all it did was bring me nothing but torment. All I kept doing was falling and falling. It seems like I could never reach the bottom and if you’ve ever experienced any kind of falling it’s pretty tormenting when you can’t reach the bottom. It was such an indescribable word… English words cannot explain the feelings of loneliness for mankind and life. I heard a voice and the voice said to me “Do you really want to die?” And I said “No, I really don’t want to die but I just don’t want to be gay.” And at that moment I then proceeded to stop falling and started going upward to a light that was tremendous light and the peace of God that I felt and the love and the joy and the acceptance I felt on the way to this light was as the same as the way to hell. There’s no English words to describe it, and I got to a place where that light was and an angel spoke to me because of time I won’t go into that detail but an angel spoke to me…
Sid: No, you got to tell me.
Keith: Okay, I’ll tell you. Is what happened was an angel came in, this was a male angel they had a British accent which I thought was very peculiar. That angel spoke to me and asked me who I was when I go there and asked me where I lived. I told him that and he asked me again “Do you really want to live?” And I said “Yes.” And he said “I’ve brought a message to you and this message is that you have been spared for a reason and I will let you live but if you ever try to do this again you shall surely make your bed in hell; and you have a job to do and I will open the job for you to do and you will not die at this time.” That’s when I came out of the coma and I said “Jesus, Jesus, Jesus” three times.
Sid: And your deliverance was sensational but we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: And my guest you listen to him long enough he’ll make you red hot for the Messiah. All of this week we’ve been talking about the statistics of so many men and women of God have gotten themselves into a funk and they’ve gotten into hopelessness. And unbelief and their vision has died. And their but… there is a supernatural substance that God calls hope. It’s a brand new beginning for you and the reason you need this is because the greatest move of God’s Spirit this planet has ever known, you are prepared for; you have a destiny for, you are going to have a vision for; you have a purpose for. So forget that junk that the devil is throwing in your face, it’s time for you to make a choice. The tools you need to make the choice are in Dutch Sheets brand new book….I’m going to tell you something I tell you you’re going to be the happiest person on earth. Why? Your season is changing. My guest Dutch Sheets had two visions because of time I want you to merge them into one Dutch and tell us what God showed you.
Dutch: You know my hopelessness for America this nation and many nations, really the earth started changing radically in ’91. I was teaching just absolutely just a normal basic teaching, and all of a sudden I had the first open vision I ever had. I was not seeing the people in front of me with my eyes wide open I was seeing something else. It shocked me I started looking around turning my head; all I could see was this vision. People knew something was happening they didn’t know what. And what I saw was this huge stadium like a big football stadium maybe 50,000 capacity filled with young people. High School/college age, 20 something radically passionately worshiping crying out to God asking Him for revival “Save this nation. Save the nations.” Just unlike anything I had ever seen. And as I watched this meeting ended; they went to the parking lot and from the parking lot as they got into their vehicles they were transformed into balls of fire and were transported back to their home cities. And everywhere they went the fires of revival began to spring up. And I watched this and then I came back to be able to see, I shared it with the people and I heard the Lord say to me “Next month when you’re in Washington, DC I’m going to confirm to you that this is me that I’m going to send a third great awakening that begins with young people and I’m going to transform them. I went back to DC a month later for the National Day of Prayer. I was part of something called the Biblethon where the Bible is read 24-7 to the Capital building. A person signed me up for 2:00 AM that was all that was left.
Dutch: We figured you’d want to read the Bible to this nation prophetically there on the Capitol steps no matter what time it was. And the Lord said “This is where I will confirm to you that this is Me, this vision.” And I said “God, the only way I would know that this is You based on the scriptures you give me to read because of what You’ve been saying to me I’d have to read Haggai or Habakkuk.” And you don’t choose where you read you just read wherever they are they start at Genesis and they go to Revelation and then they go back to Genesis all week 24 hours a day. You don’t choose what you read; what are the odds of reading Haggai that’s 2 chapters and Habakkuk 3 chapters. What are the odds that you’re going to get to read it? I said “I’m sorry Lord, this is what I’d have to read to know that this is You talking to me. When I arrived the lady looked at me 2 minutes before my time shot; they weren’t anywhere near Haggai or Habakkuk. She looked at me and said “Mr. Sheets, you have your choice; you can either read the book of Haggai or the Book of Habakkuk.” I just about fell over on the steps. I don’t even know what she was saying. God sovereignly took over her mind and mouth and I realized this is God and He’s going to come to this nation with a mighty outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Well that was ’91 I thought it would happen the next week. But it was really to start me on a journey of prayer and intercession to become a prophetic voice for this nation. You know the next one the next phase of this hit me at all times the week of 9/11 2001. I went to preach a conference in the northwest again and I tell you it was Friday night of that week, it was like trying to preach at a funeral. The oppression that week was so thick over this nation. They were still digging through the rubble that everyone was in shock. And I was up to give them hope and I got up and I didn’t even know what I was saying but I had another open vision on the back wall. There must have been 1500 people there; on the back wall which I was facing as I was speaking. It was like an invisible hand begin to write and when it was finished it was literally to me like a neon light, I saw it. It was as real as a neon sign and it said “Acts 3:19” and as I watched it it began to flash at me on and off Acts 3:19. Well I knew what it said “Repent and return to Me.” Is what it’s implying in order that your sins be wiped away and times of refreshing will come from the presence of the Lord.” And I started preaching and declaring that verse, I knew what it said. So I started preaching this. “Times of refreshing there” The word refreshing doesn’t mean refreshing like we think of it; it means literally anasuta is the word. It means the blowing of breath or wind again intensely. God said “If you repent I’m going to send another wind which will blow intensely in this nation and bring life.” And then I closed my eyes and began to pray and it was like I was watching a movie. I began to see what was coming to America. And for 30 minutes I narrated the scene to the people and the leaders. Sid I saw the Spirit of God coming to this nation with strength and power. He started visiting High Schools, Junior High Schools, colleges, and universities. There was no place the nation that was immune to it. He came with life, He came powerfully, I started seeing signs and wonders, miracles. I started seeing young people delivered; now this is not just for young people it’s coming for everyone but I knew it would begin there. I saw mass deliverance. I didn’t have theology for what I was seeing. I saw large groups of young people all over the room they would begin to shout; Jesus just delivered me. They would come; they would lay down paraphernalia, drugs, transformed. Someone else would jump up and say “Jesus just healed me!” These were kids that didn’t know the Bible some of them didn’t know anything about scripture. They had no reference for what was happening, they were saved by the 1000’s. Listen it hit all over this nation; the fires of revival. I saw college campuses this was so radical and so strong sporting events were canceled, not that sports is bad the people didn’t want to go, they just wanted to go worship or pray or talk about what God was doing. I saw days and nights when there were no classes on secular compasses. Administrators would try to go stop this to get them to go to class. They would walk in the room and they’d be overcome by the power of God and couldn’t even talk. This went on and on and until the fires of revival was sweeping this nation. And listen it’s not just for America it’s for the nations! I’ve seen, I turned at one point to the leaders as I was watching this and I said “I’ve never seen anything like what is coming.” It will be greater than the first great awakening, and the second great awakening; we’ve never seen anything like it. And then I looked at the leaders and I said “This is going to be very difficult to steward because there was no religious box you could put it in, there was no denomination that could hold it. We couldn’t turn them into churchy religious people; they just loved Yeshua and were passionate for Him. And it is coming.
Sid: I have to tell you parents that are listening right now they see what the institutions are doing to their children; they see how bankrupt their kids are because they’re being taught there is no God; they’re being taught there is no morality. They’re being taught the opposite of God’s word and you have just with that vision injected supernatural hope into those parents right now. But it’s not just parents and children it’s every problem that you have; every problem that’s bogged you down, every bit of heaviness, everything. Your season is ready to change and the thing that’s going to do is when you are supernaturally injected with supernatural hope when you have the practical steps to move forward….
Sid: Now I’m going to ask you a question maybe you have observed this and maybe you haven’t. When I go to a church and I say “I want everyone to be really honest with me raise your hand if you’re believing God to be physically healed.” Do you know if they’re really honest with me I will have over 90% of the people raise their hands. I’m not discounting the miracles that happen in those churches. But I’m saying what’s the problem? And there is a problem and I believe that as my guest explains her walk and what she’s been taught by the Holy Spirit you will understand why this should not be and will not be. And perhaps the missing ingredient in you walking out what has already been granted you. Because your healing occurred over 2000 years ago will be what Katherine Ruonala will teach. Now Katherine is from Brisbane, Australia; she corrected me I said that she was from Brisbain. And Katherine said “No, it’s Brisbine,” and now I’m going to be okay in Australia. Or I’d have all of my Australian friends upset with me. Katherine just to kinda whet the appetite tell me about the time you were in Augusta, Georgia. You had a word of knowledge about a deaf ear.
Katherine: Well Sid we have seen so many people being healed of deafness and had deaf ears open. And I was doing a meeting and the Lord gave me a word of knowledge; it’s the word that I had for the evening that there was someone there with a deaf ear that needed their hearing restored. And a lady come forward but she actually had no ear she had had an operation to have her ear drum cut and her ear removed because of a cancerous tumor. I felt so intimidated when I looked and I saw the place where her ear use to be and her beautiful face shining and expecting God to give her hearing that I thought “Oh Lord what are You doing, I was…”
Sid: You didn’t show that to anyone I don’t think (Laughing) but the Lord knew.
Katherine: That’s right. So I went to pray for her and as I laid my hand on her ear, well the place where ear used to be, I felt the Lord say “Ask her if she can hear?” And I was saying to myself “Lord I have faith to believe that maybe You can grow an eardrum overnight,” but I really didn’t feel like I had a lot of faith to see such a major miracle. I’ve always learned that God smarter than I am and that His ways are higher and obedience brings blessing. So I went to pray for her and then I whispered into her ear I said “Can you hear me?” And she swung her head around and said “Yes!” And I said “Really?!” I was so surprised her hearing had been completely restored. And then suddenly in the room faith just rose up in the people, we started to have people come forward who had cataracts and they would just disappear in front of us. They got their eyesight restore. They had a man with crippled fingers had with arthritic fingers all curled up on top of each other, they had their fingers to straighten out and he plays the guitar now and the glory of God just came. You know God is so much more willing to heal then we are to see Him move. You give Him an opportunity and He takes full advantage when others come to Him for help.
Sid: Okay, I just wanted to give you a taste of what’s God’s doing with Katherine. But I’m going to take you back to age 12 you’re at a youth camp and you’re kind of struggling, what were you struggling with?
Katherine: Well I was brought up in Sunday School and I believed that God existed. I knew that He was real but I just got real with God; everybody was lifting their hands and worshiping and singing and I just began to speak to God and say “Lord I believe in You but I can’t see You and I don’t know You and it’s really hard to worship somebody I can’t see and don’t know.” Because I thought I can do what I know that I should but without a connection it just didn’t… it didn’t feel real to me. And so I cried out “Lord help!” You know help is still my very best prayer.
Sid: Hmm, and by the way that’s how I got saved my prayer was not a typical prayer; my prayer was a 2 word prayer “Jesus help.” (Laughing) That’s how I got saved.
Katherine: God loves to do that, in fact that’s who He is He always manifests Himself as the answer to anyone who comes and asks. And right there in the middle of worship the Lord just made himself real to me. I had a vision and the only way that I can really describe it is that I was blind but now I see. It was a supernatural revelation of God and knew who I was worshiping. I wasn’t worshiping somebody I had a concept about, I was worshiping somebody I knew and it was a supernatural thing. I believe what God wants to do for everyone that will ask Him.
Sid: Now everyone would think that you lived happily ever after but you had been abused and you had to leave your home shortly thereafter. And you were dealing with most of your life with insecurity, shame, fear, rejection. And one day you take a job teaching in a Christian school, they have orientation week, I guess and they gave you an assignment. What was that assignment?
Katherine: Well they said go away for 15 minutes and write down what the Lord says to you. And so I went away and I was talking to the Lord “Well what do you want to change, what do you want to fix.” And I heard Him speak to me so clearly He said, “I love you.” And I argued with God I said “Lord, everybody knows that even the “Beatles” wrote a song about Jesus loving you.”
Katherine: But come on God I’m serious here tell me tell me what You want changed, tell me what you need to fix in me. And for 15 minutes He said 3 words over and over again. I felt embarrassed going back into the room thinking well for the last 15 minutes all I’ve got is 3 words. But you know they were the 3 words that I needed to know more than anything. I was so full of fear, I was so full of rejection that the perfect love of God is what casts out fear and God was trying to say to me “I want you to know that I’m for you, that I love you that I’m not looking to be harsh on you; I want you to come close to Me and know that I’ve got the answer to all of your insecurities, all of your fears and I want my perfect love to just heal you and cast out all of your fears.” You know that’s what the scriptures says “I sought the Lord and He heard me and delivered me from all of my fears,” and so that was a beginning of a journey for me into knowing the love of God.
Sid: And so you get married to prince charming; you’re a young mother but all of that rejection; all of that fear; all of that shame it was still trapped inside of you. And one day you decide to ask God 3 questions; what were the 3 questions?
Katherine: Well I was driving to the meeting and I’d been reading about the Holy Spirit being my helper, my teacher, and so I thought “Well if You’re my teacher and Your my helper surely I must be able to ask You some questions.” You see ever since I had been saved I really knew that God helped me when I got real with Him, when I didn’t play religious games but talked to Him as my friend. So I said “Holy Spirit would you teach me about this falling down business.” I’d seen people in meetings fall down when people prayed for them and I didn’t know what that was whether they were courtesy drops or whether it was the power of God or whether they were pushed. I just sincerely wanted to know and it was a funny little question and I said to him “And Lord I got this gangrene tumor on my wrist and it was benign it didn’t have any danger but it was uncomfortable and I asked the Lord to heal me that night. Then I said this I said “Lord would you set me free from the fear that my husband would die.” Because I met this beautiful man who had signed a piece of paper that said that He would love me until he died. And naturally for somebody so needy for love my next thought was “What well what happens if he does die?” I just was plagued with this fear but actually it was a tip of a huge iceberg and that iceberg was based in all of that shame and the abandonment and the rejection that I had experienced.
Sid: So someone could look at you on the outside and said “Boy that Katherine Ruonala has it all together, wonderful husband, wonderful mother.” But on the inside you knew that something was wrong hold those thoughts. …. You’re going to stop struggling for the miraculous in your life; you’re going to learn to be a gateway that God can step right through. You will believe so completely in God’s love for you that you’ll be amazed if a miracle doesn’t happen. And you’re going to let God flow through you like never before it won’t be you healing someone because the truth is you can’t heal anyone….
Sid: Sometimes my conversations with my guest are better before I go on the air than after. So I want you to enjoy a little bit of the conversation I’ve been having with Dr. Paul L. Cox from Apple Valley, California with the Aslan’s Place Ministry. On yesterday’s broadcast you found out that Dr. Cox was a nice American Baptist Pastor, he got into the deliverance ministry. He found out that God gave him a supernatural gift of discernment that was transferable. He found out things, keys if you will, about people where he would be just praying with them and people would be in therapy for years and never get to the roots of their problem. And immediately the Holy Spirit would show these people, I mean 2 years old a woman was abused and she knew it. I mean without the supernatural help of God she’d be in therapy the rest of her life and never be set free. But instantly she would be set free. So we were talking before we went on the air and Dr. Cox explained to me about the Sabbath and I’m the Messianic Jew and he was explaining to me about the Sabbath. And he says there is a rest. There is a Sabbath rest and the book of Hebrews talks about this that he has entered into and it’s been corporate where members of his entire congregation have entered into this rest. That is beyond anything that most traditional Jews have ever even thought about let alone done. Or most traditional Charismatics have even thought about rather than even done. As a matter of fact Paul this is the way I see it. I am… I wrote a book before I became a believer, I’m sorry it was a song before I became a believer in the Messiah and then it became a book. And the songs title is “There Must Be Something More.” And when I found the Messiah 30 years ago and I found that something more. And there’s nothing more than the Messiah. But there must be something more to walking in the Spirit than what we have. There must be something more than the traditional church services that we have, there must be something more. And you told me that you’re walking into that something more, tell me again what goes on with this Sabbath rest that hits your congregation.
Dr. Paul L. Cox: What I did not tell you is that the first time this happened I was in a church of a good friend in San Jose area. And there were 5 of us and we were doing deliverance. And out of my mouth came these words, “Lord take us to the 4th dimension to do this deliverance.” And immediately all 5 of us felt like we were on an elevator and we were going up. And I was reminded then of that passage in Revelations 4 where the Lord said to John, “Come up here.” And he saw a door open and we literally started going up. And I had been in a very difficult time in my life and we had been very anxious about many things. And I felt like I was supposed to ask the question “How many of us can’t worry right now?” And we all agreed that it was absolutely impossible to have any anxious thought, we tried. I tried as hard as I could to be anxious and I could not be anxious. And we remained there for about an hour. Since then I realized that the Lord is inviting us to enter into the Shabbat, the Sabbath rest. And in Hebrews 4 it says “For you have not yet entered into My rest but there is a rest for the people of God.” And we have that now on several occasions in churches where I’ve spoken at the end of the sermon when we talk about the glory of God I’ve just asked the Lord to take us into the rest. And we will all feel like we’re going up. And the most amazing thing is the first time this happened people started laying down in the aisles everywhere. And for many minutes in fact throughout the service they’d lay on the floor totally at rest in the peace of God.
Sid: Now I have to understand what you’re saying here, I know about things like “Laughing in the Spirit.” And when people laugh in the Spirit many times they get physically healed, but it seems to me resting in the Spirit has got to be the most wonderful thing for the physical body that God’s given us.
Dr. Paul L. Cox: Yes. It is very very wonderful. It was interesting too that one national prophet said “The year 2002 would be a time of people entering into the rest of the Lord.” And it was in December of last year was the first time that we noticed this, it was 2001 December, the first time we experienced this in our congregation. And I feel like this is a year of people entering into rest, completely reliant upon the Lord, resting in Him. Not struggling but just in a sense resting in His bosom as we used to sing in the hymns.
Sid: Now, you know what I would like you to do on Friday’s show because that’s our Shabbat show, could we pray and experiment that we could all corporately as a radio Mishpochah move into this Shabbat rest?
Dr. Paul L. Cox: That would be an interesting experiment.
Sid: I’m looking forward to it. In the mean time you understand things about discernment, how important is discernment in the last days we’re living in?
Dr. Paul L. Cox: Well our Lord told us in the Olivet Discourse that if possible even the elect would be deceived. Also in the letters Paul talked to us about what will happen in the last days and how people would come in very deceptive ways. And I believe it’s important that we move in area of understanding knowing whether or not that something is really of God or if it’s of the enemy. I might add here that I feel like in the Pentecost and Charismatic Movement the Lord did many, many wonderful things. But perhaps the there was not a whole lot of discernment so error came in and the enemy intruded into what the Lord was doing. And since there was not discernment it was not easy to tell whether or not it was God. So I believe what the Lord is doing before the next, what I think is a great revival coming is that He’s releasing discernment so that we’d be able to discern whether something’s really are of God or not.
Sid: And I believe it’s going to be different, God will come in a different package so to speak that any of us have ever experienced so that therefore without discernment there is no way to tell is it God or is it not.
Dr. Paul L. Cox: Exactly, I really believe that. It’s interesting that a new move of God is really is a new move. And we tend to think that the new moves are going to be the same as the old moves but it usually is not.
Sid: Do you have any prophetic insight into what this next move will be like? What it will accomplish, how it will be different than what we’ve had previously?
Dr. Paul L. Cox: The only sense I have is that it will come very strongly on the youth, I think those that are maybe college age or below. This is going to be an amazing outpouring of the Spirit that’s going to be very shocking to the church. And these kids are going to become so radical that even adults maybe come offended.
Sid: Well hopefully some of the adults will become radical too, I mean there’s got to be some Joshua’s and Caleb’s.
Dr. Paul L. Cox: I keep on telling the lord “I want to be Joshua to help go into the land with the youth.”
Sid: Now you had a youth meeting I was told that you sort of get certain feelings before the meeting, tell me about it.
Dr. Paul L. Cox: Well we have what are called “Young Warrior Meetings.” And during these meetings even though we have a lot of notes and things to study, generally we don’t get to any of them because before each meeting the Lord comes and does something different. And generally just leads us in the direction that He wants to go.
Sid: Give me an actual example.
Dr. Paul L. Cox: Well there was one time when we were in Germany outside of Munich and I could feel the manifest presence of the Lord in a cloud. We have actually been able to discern the cloud of His glory coming, for me it feels very cold. As you know from the last part of Exodus that the fire is in the cloud.
Sid: So why would it be cold, it should be hot?
Dr. Paul L. Cox: The fires hot but the cloud is cold.
Dr. Paul L. Cox: And so we felt the cloud inside of the room and so I asked a young German teenager I believe he’s 14 to come and stand right in the fire. And so he stood there and he started trembling and shaking. There were about 60 of us in a circle around where the cloud of His glory was. And he started weeping. And so I said to him “What is going on, what’s happening? He said “The Lord is telling me to repent for my sins.” What I did not know is that he had been a very rebellious teenager the last few weeks before our meeting. His parents had tricked him into coming to the meeting. He had not been in church and had not wanted to go to church. Well the Lord came with such power and dealt with him that he actually started repenting, even though we had not talked about repentance. And then under the power of God he fell to the floor and we for several minutes watched this all going on. Then he stood up and I have to add he was radically changed.
Sid: If he wasn’t radically changed and it was just an experience so what, that’s the way I feel. But if he’s radically changed if there’s fruit, that’s what I want to see.
Dr. Paul L. Cox: And I believe this is what the Lord is doing today is that because of the nature of the church the kids want to see the reality of an experience with God.
Sid: There used to be a hamburger chain and they had a commercial “Where’s the beef?”
Dr. Paul L. Cox: That’s right.
Sid: And that’s what the teens and that’s what Joshua and Caleb are saying, “Where’s the beef?”
Dr. Paul L. Cox: That’s right. What I have found is that these kids not only are changed but the reports I continue to back is, is that they are different that their lifestyle is different.
Sid: Now why are people going to be offended over this? This sounds wonderful?
Dr. Paul L. Cox: Unfortunately there’s still a lot of religion around and I have in this particular meeting there is a man sitting in the balcony and he was like the naysayer saying “Well I don’t believe this is true.” And Pharisees are not just in the Old Testament or the New Testament. There are still people that no matter what they see, what fruit they see still will not believe that God can do something like that.
Sid: We’re out of time….