SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest has chutzpah, that’s a Hebrew word, it means “nerve”. She was raised by parents that most of you have heard of, T.L. and Daisy Osborn. On the platform in foreign countries, miracles were as normal to her as the oxygen that most of us breathe. She would hear her mother and father say, in front of a group of a thousand Muslims, if this man is not healed, don’t believe anything that I say. That’s chutzpah. Sid Roth here with LaDonna Osborn. And what a heritage she had. Her parents, Daisy and T.L. Osborn, historians say probably recorded and witnessed more miracles than anyone that’s ever lived. I mean, and she grew up, you grew up on a platform watching these. Some kids grow up with little dolls and dollhouses. She grew up watching miracles. But you know, your parents started out so badly it almost ended before it started.
LaDONNA: That’s true.
SID: They love God and they decided they wanted to be pioneers in India. But India has Muslims and Hindus, and without the supernatural, it’s just mind to mind, book to book. But I’ll tell you something. They came back and they were discouraged because they couldn’t impact the people. They sacrificed and when they came back, they went to a, through an experience in which your mom said, she had a new husband. What happened to your dad, LaDonna?
LaDONNA: It was one year after they returned from India. My father and mother began every day praying. And for one year, they prayed this prayer: Lord, show us the answer. How do we convince people of other faiths and so on, how do we bring them to Christ? And after one year, some circumstances were set up that put it in their heart to just see Jesus. They heard a message, if you see Jesus, you’ll never be the same. And six o’clock that next morning, Jesus appeared to my father in their bedroom. And apparently, the way he would tell it, he was just frozen. He laid there, got out of bed eventually, laid on his face until in the afternoon. My mother got up, dealt with my brother and me, had us down for our naps before he came out of the bedroom. And she said, “When I saw him I knew I had a new husband.” But the beautiful thing about him, he said, “When I saw Jesus I was changed from a denominational man to a Jesus man.”
SID: But then he went to a meeting that there was a man that I have only seen video footage of, but probably had the greatest miracles of anyone I’ve ever heard of, short of Jesus. His name was William Branham. So he sneaks into this meeting.
LaDONNA: That’s right.
SID: And what happened?
LaDONNA: He preached a sermon that shocked them.
SID: What is that?
LaDONNA: He preached, where does sickness come from. Well my father, he’d laugh and he’d say, everyone knows where sickness comes from. It comes from germs. But Brother Branham went through the scripture and he showed that sickness comes from the devil. There was no sickness in the Garden. Sickness came after sin. And then he showed through the ministry of Jesus how sicknesses are spirits of infirmity and Jesus had the power to cast them out. And then he gave his disciples power to cast out devils and cure diseases. And that’s what you see all through the Book of Acts. So after this message was so clear and so shocking to my folks, he had people who were sick come up and pray. In those days, it was all prayer lines. You might remember. And the first person that came in the line was a little girl who was born deaf and she was mute, never spoken. And he put his fingers in her ears, and he said a simple prayer. He said, “In the name of Jesus Christ, I adjure you, the spirit of deafness to come out of the girl and enter her no more.” My father said later, he said, before we even could suck up enough oxygen, and take a deep breath to get rid of it, pray long and loud, the little girl was healed. She was instantly healed. She could repeat every word. She could hear everything. And when that happened, my father said that it was like a thousand voices whirling over his head saying, you can do that, you can do that, you can do that. That’s what Jesus did. That’s what the disciples did. You can do that. That’s what the early church did. That’s the answer. You can do that. And oh, Sid, that was like an explosion.
SID: And by the way, I have a word for you. You can do that.
LaDONNA: That’s it.
SID: You can do that. So her parents get their second wind and they decide we’re going to Jamaica. What happened? Anything close to India?
LaDONNA: Oh no, no, no. They went, they sold everything, they resigned from their church, sold the car, sold everything, and we went as a family. I was about nine months old, my brother two and a half. And they rented a little hall in Jamaica and were there for 17 weeks. And during that time, all they did was just preach Jesus alive. He’s alive, he’ll do the same things today, he has not changed, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. They would preach, they would pray for the sick, and thousands of people accepted Christ. Blind people, more than 90 blind people were healed.
SID: So you’re telling me, her mom and dad, they’re Pentecostal, they’re in a church that believes in miracles, but they don’t see many.
LaDONNA: That’s right.
SID: They go to India. They see nothing, no results at all. Then they have, they see the cause of sickness, that’s what Branham taught them, and they see a miracle and God says they can do it, so they did. And here’s the amazing thing. Thousands of people saved and healed their very first meeting. And this man T.L. Osborn was a farmer, no special gifts. If he can do it, you can do it.
LaDONNA: That’s it.
SID: We’ll be right back.
LaDONNA: That’s it.
Sid: Hello Sid Roth with something more. I don’t know about your faith but my faith is just zooming right now.
Now I said I was summering up Billy Graham’s faith “God said, I believe it, that settles it.” You have to be 100% convinced Jesus died for your sins and of course you are. Well the same reason your convinced Jesus died for your sins 100% not 99.99 and it gets you saved, you have to be 100% convinced Jesus died for your sicknesses and your pains. Psalm 103 verse 2 and 3 should settle it for you “Bless the Lord oh my soul and forget not all His benefits Who forgives all of your iniquities.” See there it is “All” A-L-L. “Who heals all (A-L-L) your diseases.”
Why does He do this? I believe the best place is Isaiah 53 and 1st Peter 2:24. Let me read this to you Isaiah 53 verse 4 and 5 “Surely He has borne our griefs” but in the Hebrew the word “grief” means sicknesses. “Surely” can you get any stronger than that? “Surely – for sure – for sure – for sure He has borne our sicknesses.” That means He carried nahash is the Hebrew word, He carried it away. It likes on the scapegoat they say the scapegoat they put the sins on the scapegoat and the scapegoat bore (nahash) bore, took it away. If they took it away then I don’t have those sins anymore. If they took it then I don’t have those pains anymore, those sicknesses. It’s summarized in 1st Peter 2:24 “By Whose stripes you were healed.” You see going to Isaiah 53 verse 4 and 5 it says “By His stripes we are healed.” 1st Peter 2:24 was afterwards after Jesus died and rose from the dead “By His stripes you were healed” It’s already happened. Surely He has carried our griefs in the Hebrew sickness. Surely He has carried our sorrows in the Hebrew pains, He carried away all of your pains, He carried away ALL of your sicknesses A-L-L.
But what about Paul He had a thorn in the flesh do you remember that? Yeah I do and I also remember the anointed understanding of what he had. 2nd Corinthians chapter 12 verses 7 – 10 “A thorn in the flesh (this is Paul speaking) a thorn in the flesh was given to me.” What was that thorn in the flesh an eye disease? No it says what it was “A messenger of Satan, a demon, to buffet me concerning this thing I practiced, I pleaded with the Lord 3 times that it might depart from me. He said to me ‘My grace (remember the definition of grace – my enabling power) My grace, My enabling power is sufficient for you Paul. He that is within you is greater than everything than that demon that is harassing you.’” My grace, My enabling power the word “grace” isn’t just being able to get through it and say “Oh I’m suffering for Jesus.” Oh yeah there are times that we suffer but I kept telling you His enabling power is sufficient to have…
Did you know that you can do according to the book of Ephesians exceedingly, abundantly beyond anything you’ve ever asked or thought according to the power that dwells within you? That covers a lot of breath I can tell you that.
So Paul says “When I am weak then I am strong” I have God’s grace His enabling power.
Now what if someone dies believing for a miracle? First of all we don’t know everything otherwise we’d be God. That’s why Deuteronomy 29:29 says “The secret things belong to our God.” But I am responsible to believe what I know. My job is to be a God pleaser without faith I cannot please God. I am doing my job I am a God pleaser, I don’t have to understand everything.
But I did find a scripture that might give you a little peace because I have a good friend in fact he was my best friend who died of cancer. He understood the promises of God and I remember questioning “Why did this happen?” There were others saying “Well if he couldn’t be healed how can I be healed?” That’s a valid thing to question, but listen to this in Isaiah 57:1 in the New Living translation “Good people pass away; but godly often die before their time. But no one seems to care or wonder why. No one seems to understand (I can see God saying in a Jewish way ‘No one seems to understand’) that God is protecting them from the evil to come.”
We have one responsibility to be a believer. I’m going to tell you something on my tombstone if I don’t get raptured like Enoch before I want it to say “He had faith.” I don’t want it to say “He did great miracles” because it’s God who does the great miracles not me not you. He had faith it gets so simple when you trust God. It’s too complex any other way. I have to tell you this, I have to tell you this I have seen so many people healed of so many things that I have faith that nothing is impossible for our God. I’m telling you this, there’s someone who’s wrist hurts there’s damage in some way even carpal tunnel or arthritis in the fingers you are healed in Jesus’ name.
What about using doctors? I suggest you do you know why? They’ll keep you alive until you believe enough for God to heal you. I’m all for doctors they can’t heal you but they can keep you alive until God heals you.
Very important to know the difference between a healing and miracle. A healing is a graaaaaadual miracle, a miracle is an instant healing. Don’t throw your healing out with the dirty wash water and miss your manifestation. You see it’s very important to understand you need the Spirit of God when you speak the words of God. The best way to have the Spirit of God being with the words of God, this is found in Genesis chapter 1 that’s a good place to start. It says “In the beginning was God” and then it said that “God’s Spirit moved on the waters,” then it says “God spoke.” So you need you the Spirit then you have to speak the promise of God.
How do you speak always in the Spirit? I have found a way to be in the Spirit 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You see a lot of people don’t realize that the Spirit of God is within you, or as Jesus put it in Luke 17:21 “The kingdom of God is within you in your heart.” John 7:38 says “From His innermost being shall flow continuously springs and rivers of living water.” In other words, your spirit of God is down here in your stomach and it’s in your heart but it’s not your natural heart. It’s right in your innermost being that’s what Jesus said “In your belly will flow rivers of living water.”
So what I have found is if you can imagine an old fashioned well, and a bucket, and the string you know you roll that pulley. You wind the rope down and the bucket goes down into that well so you get that nice spring water. Well I can imagine dropping down all the way down to my spirit and staying there. You know what I’ve found when I do that and I’m listening to a speaker my spirit starts jumping but all the time, but if I don’t do that it’ll jump once in a while. So I have trained myself to drop all the way down to my spirit and stay there as… all the time really.
The last bit of advice is never every give up, never give up. Patience is important recognize you’re in a fight. 1st Timothy says Fight the good fight of faith.” That’s the fight it’s against the devil and it’s in the faith arena it’s not with flesh and blood. It’s with spiritual principalities and powers of darkness. So Luke 8:15 says in the Amplified “But as for that seed (and the seed is the word of God) as for that word you have to have it in the good soil (or in your heart), these are the people who, hearing the Word, hold it fast in a just noble, virtuous and worthy heart, and steadily bring forth fruit with patience.” So through faith and patience you will inherit the promises and faith is very very bold.
You see faith is spelled R-I-S-K, risk, faith is taking a risk. I can tell you that if I say someone’s healed of a backache this is a real simple risk for you, you just stand up you bend over, or your neck ache or you bend your neck like this and you find out you’re healed. Now if you have to do it front of someone there’s a greater risk, or if you have a what’s known as a word of knowledge like I do and you do it front of an audience then there’s even a greater risk, but faith is spelled R-I-S-K.
Now the sixth is authority and guess what? This is how much authority you have Matthew 28 verse 18 and 19 you see it’s delegated authority. This is how much you have “All (Jesus is speaking) all authority has been given to me in heaven and earth.” Then He delegates and says “Go therefore” why? Because all authority has been given to Jesus, Jesus is inside of you. So you operate in all authority. It’s like a traffic policeman you hold your hand and you blow a whistle and see if you can stop a car speeding at you. You can’t! But you have the authority and that car stops. That’s the authority you have in the invisible world the devil is scared of you, he’s afraid of you, he’s a fraidy cat. He’s going to keep harassing you as long as he thinks you’re going to bite, he’s a big bully. Well you tell that big bully you’ll blow your whistle, and by the way you blow your whistle by saying “Jesus” that’s how you blow your whistle an he’s at you then he stops, resist the devil and he will run as in fear.
Now I don’t know if I’m going to finish, however if I don’t we’ll give you the address of my website and you just go to the website and you’ll have the rest of this.
The 7th principle God says never fails it is called love. I remember an old prophet who is now in heaven and this is the words he would always say to people “Have you learned to love?” As if to say “If you’ve done all these great things in this life and you haven’t learned to love you’ve missed the whole purpose of what you’re suppose to do in this life.”
Then I had a guest and he made a very profound statement “Don’t just love someone by thinking ‘Oh I love them, I love them, I love them…’ No! Tell them what you love about them.” How would you like someone walking up to you saying “You know I really like it the way you take care of your elderly mother. You’re really are an unusual person.” Rather than think it start saying that. When you see something in their life that you can compliment them on start doing that.
If you want to know what love looks like read the definition 1st Corinthians chapter 13 verse 4 – 8 but I love chapter 14 of that 1st Corinthians verse 1 which says “Make love” in the Amplified “Make love your great quest.” That’s either the Amplified or the New Living translation, “Make love your great great quest.”
God’s definition of love and you should meditate on this everyday “Love endures long, I endure long. I am patient, I am kind, I am not envious, I don’t boil over with jealousy, I am not boastful, I am not arrogant, or inflated with pride. I am not rude, I don’t act unbecomingly, I don’t insist on my own rights.” Ohhh! You should work on that, not you. Remember what I’m doing I’ve got 3 fingers pointing at me right now.
Galatians 5:6 says why love is so important. It says “Faith is activated and energized and expressed and working through love.”
Ephesians 4:29 tells us be very very careful of what you speak. In the New Living translation it says “Everything I say is good and helpful, so that all my words are an encouragement to those who hear them.” In Ephesians 4:29 in the Message Bible it says “I say only what helps, each of my words are a gift.” Isn’t that great? Every word you say is a gift. Guard your eyes, guard your ears, guard your mouth. Why? Everything you hear, see, everything you listen to it’ll grow like leaven. Be careful what you let inside it has a life of its own.
That’s why God tells us in Philippians 4:8 “And now dear brothers and sisters one final thing, fix your thoughts on what is true and honorable, and right and pure, and lovely and admirable. Think about these things that are excellent and worthy of praise because as a man thinketh in his heart so is he.” So what do you want to be? Do you want to be what’s on the news, or do you want to be like Jesus? You really have the choice.
I found myself… I’ll tell you what if you go to our webpage I’m going to put it up right now. I’m going to continue the rest of these points.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest was a pastor for ten years of a spiritual congregation and never heard the voice of God and he got desperate, and he had a visitation and he was given four keys that he says a hundred percent of the people that will do what he says can hear God as well as him, if not better. Anyone interested? I’m so excited to talk to Dr. Mark Virkler because Dr. Virkler heard from God supernatural on how every true believer can do what the Bible says could be normal, normal as defined by the Bible, hear God’s voice daily for themselves. Now there was a time, Mark, when you as a pastor in a spirit-filled church did not hear God’s voice. What did you do about it?
MARK: I struggled for ten years and I tried everything that I thought would work. I read more scripture. That didn’t work. I fasted longer. That didn’t work. I asked people who heard God’s voice, “What does it sound like?” They said, “Well you just know that you know.” And I said, “No, I don’t know, which is why I’m asking you. That doesn’t help me at all. Tell me what his voice sounds like.” And no one could explain what God’s voice sounded like, and everything I tried didn’t work. I went to Bible college, got a degree, I got ordained as a minister. All those things are supposed to work, I thought.
SID: So he got desperate and he decided, I’m going to take a year and do nothing but pray that I hear God’s voice and do as much study as I can. And he got desperate, and as he got desperate, about six months in, suddenly what happened?
MARK: The Lord woke me up about five o’clock in the morning with a booming bass voice, which is the only time in my entire life I heard a booming bass. But he said, “Mark, get up. I’m going to teach you to hear my voice.” And I bolted straight up in bed, I went over to my office and I sat down with my Bible, and he led me to Habakkuk 2:1 and 2, and he showed me four things that Habakkuk did that allowed him to hear the voice of God, to see vision and to write out page after page of what God was saying to him.
SID: Let me tell you what happened when he started hearing God’s voice. Let’s start with your marriage. What happened to your marriage?
MARK: Well my wife said that her marriage improved greatly when I began to hear God’s voice.
SID: I could understand that.
MARK: And it’s because, you know, the Lord in my journal would say, “Mark,” he would say, “love your wife.” And I’d say, “I’m going to as soon as I fix her.” And he said, “No, I didn’t say to fix her. I said love your wife.” I said, “I’m going to as soon as I fix her.” He said, “Mark, love your wife.” Fifty times he told me to love my wife just the way she was without trying to change her personality, make her more like me. He said, “She’s fine the way she is.” And I mean, this is like Christianity 101. You just honor people and love them.
SID: Okay. Your children, how did it affect your relationship there, or with them?
MARK: Well at that point, we had brought a teenage girl into our home, like a foster child. She had run away from her parents’ home and her parents went to our church, and they let us bring her into our home. She’s breaking all the household rules, acting very rebellious and I’m really upset with her. And I wanted to just kind of punch her out in Christian love and say, “Look, if you’re going to stay here, you need to keep these rules.” And so before I did, I journaled and I said, “Lord, what about this girl?” And as the Lord spoke, he said, “She’s very insecure.” I said, “Really?” And he said, “Yeah. I want you to love her unconditionally.” And I said, “Really?” Because I had a lot of conditions. Here’s my rules. Here’s my rules.
SID: You were going to do the exact opposite of what God knew was the key to her heart.
MARK: Yeah. Because I was looking at the outside façade of rebellion. God was looking at the wounded heart of insecurity and saying, “Minister to her heart, not her outer façade.” And so he had me [relate] to the true part of her. It made me a better parent and instantly improved my relationships with everybody.
SID: Okay. How did it change you in ministry?
MARK: Well in ministry, I learned that I could preach from flow, I could counsel from flow, I could teach from flow. And the Lord said, “Mark,” he said, “your teaching style will be transformed…”
SID: Excuse me. You’re using a term, “flow.” What is that?
MARK: Flow, that is one of those four keys that God taught me that morning. He says his voice sounds like flowing thoughts and his vision comes as flowing pictures. And the scripture verse backs it up. Jesus said, “Out of your inner most being shall flow rivers of living water.” This, he spoke in the Spirit. So when we want to tune to the Holy Spirit with this, we sense him as a flow. So flowing words, flowing thoughts is his voice. Flowing visions are, flowing pictures are his vision. And I didn’t know that because I had no theology from flow. So I began to speak from flow. I began to think in flow. I began to counsel from flow.
SID: So how did your messages get different as a result?
MARK: Well the more fun-loving and less rigid or less control, less law, instead of, here’s a Bible verse, see if you can keep it and if you cannot, I’ll beat you and I’ll whip, you know, I noticed Jesus wasn’t doing that with me. He would never. And I asked him. I said, “Don’t you want to hit me for sinning here?” He said, “No, it’s covered by the blood. It’s fine. It’s a learning curve mistake. Don’t worry about it. Let’s press on. It’s fine.” And because he treated me that way, I began to preach that way. And yeah, we make some mistakes. That’s okay. It’s learning curve mistakes. And I didn’t preach harsh law anymore. Here’s a law, try to keep it. I’d preach who Jesus was inside of you, learning to attune to him, and flow in and out of him.
SID: His Word says, “My sheep, hear my voice.” And you were going to hear God’s voice. We’ll be right back.
Sid: Now I can tell you my guest Gene Mullenax I’m speaking to him by way of telephone in North Little Rock, Arkansas is red hot for the Messiah. Why? Because he had a creative miracle. I love creative miracles because I believe they are contagious. As a matter of fact he then prayed other people and they had creative miracles. Back in the 1950’s he had a cist that grew on his lung and it was hemorrhaging, so he went in for some exploratory surgery, they did not know what was wrong and when he woke up they had removed his right lung and 3 of his ribs. He pretty much couldn’t work full-time the rest of his life, and he had a wife and a couple of small children, he was a mess. One day he was driving home and he saw a tent. Now he wasn’t a religious man but it was some sort of Christian meeting, he was curious, but then heard rumors that it was all fake. It was a man by the name of A.A. Allen who had a big revival meeting in Arkansas at the time. So the last night of the campaign he got enough nerve and… even though he thought it was phony something, it was a compulsion it was pulling him, he couldn’t even get his friends to even go there, but he got in line and he’s standing in line this last night, and he had seen people healed but there were things that were on the inside of people. So he didn’t think it was really true, but something was driving him and he got in that line. So you’re getting closer to this A.A. Allen and what’s going on in your mind at that time Gene?
Gene: Well my mind as going crazy because I could not believe that there was anything happening. I finally was able to get a prayer card in the 2:30 meeting and you have to go back that night. So I went home and I got the prayer card, and I went home and I told my family that I was going to that meeting and I was going to be healed, and they showed up, they came. The phony friend that I had…
Sid: Wait a second Gene! How could you have said “You were going to be healed?” You thought the whole deal was phony!
Gene: Well that’s the only way I figured I could get them there was to tell them…
Sid: But why would you want to get your family there?
Gene: I don’t know I was just wanted them… I wanted to be healed so bad because I knew that I couldn’t and I had a family to take care of. First time in my life I had somebody to love me, I left home when I was 12 years old and I had the most beautiful woman in the whole wide world. Had a beautiful young family and there I was staring death in the face.
Sid: Okay you’re standing in line now your family is watching this whole, as you called it “Circus.” What happened next?
Gene: Well I was standing in line and of course I was so weak that night I was so weak they had an usher that had a chair that sat… they had assigned to me an usher and he had a chair. When I got tired I sat down in that chair. I was sitting in that chair and I looked up in front of me was a man that must of weighed 400 pounds. He had a little baby in front of him and every once in a while he’d put that little baby over his shoulder and I looked up and I saw that baby had a huge growth in his mouth. This baby must have been about 2 years old or less. The thought came to me “That baby might be healed. If that baby could be healed I know the rest of this they couldn’t fool the kid.”
Sid: Now describe to me what you saw in that baby’s mouth.
Gene: A huge growth and a big old purple veins down his throat, on the outside… of course the baby was eaten up with cancer, but I didn’t even know what that was. I heard the word but I didn’t know anything about cancer. This little baby had a huge growth and he was sucking on that big old growth like it was a pacifier…
Sid: Now this was back in the 1950’s and the baby… can you picture this Mishpochah, I mean he’s standing in line waiting for this evangelist A.A. Allen to lay hands on him, not sure about what’s going on. Just kind of something’s driving him and sees this little 2 year old baby with a growth and the growth is so big. The growth is being used by the baby like a pacifier. Okay go ahead Gene.
Gene: Okay, and I kept wrestling with that because there was about 500 people in line and I was about 250 down so I had a lot of time to think and to see and watch this baby. All this thought came to me that “If this child is prayed for and not healed, I’m going to grab that microphone and I’m going to tell the entire audience that he’s a fake, that he’s really a fake.” So I wrestled with that and we kept going towards the front and finally got up pretty close, and it got close enough to where he said he told about this baby, this little baby. He said “I’m not even going to pray for this baby,” he said “I’m just going to point at it.” I thought “You’re a bigger fool than I figured you was.” I thought “If that thing doesn’t go like he said it is… if it’s not going to go I’m going to grab that microphone and he’s going to eat the big end of it.” I mean I was so stirred up it’s a wonder the Lord hadn’t struck me dead (chuckling) the way was acting.
Gene: But we made our way on up there, this little baby it’s the honest to God’s truth he was 20-30 feet away from this baby and he just pointed and said “In the name of Jesus,” I had my head stuck around there right in that baby’s face. It’s a wonder that thing didn’t go down my throat, but I was looking right at that baby not 6 inches away from it and he said “In the name of Jesus” and that thing left just exactly that quick. That little baby brung his tongue out trying to find that bump he had been sucking on (chuckling), and all that blue veins and all purple veins down his throat was instantly changed the little baby’s natural skin, I mean in an instant.
Sid: How many people would you say were in that tent at that time?
Gene: It was over 10,000 inside and they said there was over 20… 20,000 total. So there must have been another 10 outside. It was all the way around the tent outside several rows deep.
Sid: Okay now you see this miracle before your very eyes. You must have been shaken, what are you thinking, what’s going on inside of you now?
Gene: I had made such a spectacle out of getting out of line every time somebody got prayed for I’d go up and see if I could get in… see what they’re being prayed for as fast as I could. So I made such a spectacle of… when it came my time he said “You come up here on the stage,” everybody else had been going on the platform, and he’s setting in a chair and he’d pray for them. He said “You come up here I want to talk about you a minute.” So I went up on the stage with both hands doubled up, I didn’t know what to expect but I was going to fight my way out of it one way or the other even though I weighed 118 pounds and could hardly walk. Either way they had told me before the stage was wired so I was expecting that…
Sid: Mishpochah in other words he thought the stage was wired which caused people to shake, he didn’t know that was the power of God. Okay go ahead Gene.
Gene: No I had no idea. He told about my story, he told part of my story and while I was up there I looked out over the audience, and by the way I’d say 70% of them were black. I had all my life I didn’t like black people at all, I had such a hate for them, and all of a sudden I saw a big black man sitting about the 2nd or 3rd row, the thought came to me “Wouldn’t you like to go out there and sit down in his lap and put your arm around him?” I thought they’ve got this stage wired with something making me thing like that.
Gene: I’m trying to find out what was making my thought life go crazy. All of a sudden Sid I heard myself crying deep down inside and I left home when I was 12 years old so I was kind of hard to make cry. I heard myself crying and for the first time in my life I began to be healed from the inside.
Sid: You know as you’re saying this Gene, I don’t know what’s going on because we’re doing this by way of telephone but I can tell you the compassion of the Lord is coming over the airwaves right now. I mean I can feel it’s tangible, God’s compassion is moving right through our voices right now, continue Gene.
Gene: Okay he had asked everybody to pray for me and if I didn’t have a miracle I was going to die. I heard those big ol’ speakers behind me say “Die, die, die,” and I knew that I was going to die and the doctor told me that, but I never heard it that loud and that clear. All of sudden he asked everyone to pray for me and all those black people scooted out on the edge of their seat stretched their hand towards me and Allen asked everybody to raise their hands, and I raised mine as best as I could. My right one I couldn’t get up there for him. Standing in that condition that was when I thought somebody had poured something on me it felt like somebody poured something real thick warm over me and I turned around with my fist rolled up to get whoever was behind me but there wasn’t anybody there.
Sid: What do you mean there wasn’t anybody there? There had to be.
Gene: There wasn’t anybody pouring anything on me.
Sid: So what was pouring on you?
Gene: I found out later…
Sid: Alright no, no, no, but at the time what did you think?
Gene: I didn’t know. They had me… I was so messed up mentally, I mean I thought they was pouring something on me, I thought they had the stage wired.
Gene: I was told everything in the book. I was scared of people anyway and there was 20,000 of them looking at me. I just raised my hands as best as I could, is what he told everybody to do. The only way I can explain what happened was it felt like somebody just opened my mouth, I had my eyes shut. So it was like open my mouth and put a rubber hose in it and “Pow!” and I blew up and I mean I’ve been blown up ever since. Everything the doctors cut out went back in in a split second…
Sid: Oh were out of time!
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to know that people are being raised from the dead. That the same miracles that we read about in the Bible are taking place before our very eyes. We have the most documented miracle I have ever seen anywhere, short of course in the Bible, of a man that was dead for 3 days. He was dead according to the doctors, he was dead according to the mortuaries, so dead they injected chemicals inside of him that he had not been dead he would have died from the chemicals at the mortuary. But his wife received a visitation and was told he would come back to life and she tenaciously went to the mortuary took the body under false pretenses not… she wasn’t going to say “I know he’ll be healed.” She said “I just want to bury him.” So she takes the body, she brings it to a meeting that Reinhard Bonnke is speaking, Reinhard doesn’t even know about this. They decide it will cause too much confusion for a hearse, and a casket, and a body inside being taken into the meeting. So they finally decide “We’ll take him out of the casket and carry him to the basement so it won’t be any disturbance.” During the meeting they see signs of life and they start praying for all… now he’s down in the basement but they see he comes back to life. Reinhard Bonnke what happened next?
Reinhard: Well he comes back to life, I had finished preaching, I was already in the office of the pastor, I had to hurry by chartered aircraft back to Lagos to make my connection to my gospel crusade which was imminent. I had just gone to Onitsha by way of a detour and as a favor to a friend of mine and then while I was in the office the announcement was made in the church that in the basement a man was raised from the dead. I mean I have never heard such hysteric, joyful shouts in my whole life. I thought the roof of the cathedral was caving in. It was awesome and we were told that this man has come back to life, he has come back to life! They carried him up into the church. He still was oblivious of everything that went on around him.
Sid: Was he… you said he had rigor mortis that set in he was like concrete.
Reinhard: He was like concrete they massaged his body, the limbs began to move and everything, and that’s when they carried him up. So it took a few hours before he was able to recognize his wife and his son, and when he was able to respond to questions. His first word was “Where is my notepad?” He actually used the word that is used in Nigeria, file. He said “Where is my file?”
Sid: Why did he want this?
Reinhard: Well I will come to that a little later because this is connected with the second part of this great miracle. Because when he died we know what happened to the body, that’s what we had been talking about so far. The second part is what happened to his spirit. Later on I asked Pastor Daniel, I said “What about the injuries you suffered from? The accident when you came back to life, have you had pain?” He said to me “I have pains.” I said “What pains do you have? From the accident?” He said “No not from the accident I have great pains from the terrible massage” (Laughing).
Reinhard: You know there was not a scratch on his body from his injuries. It all totally vanished and his heart was perfect, his ribs were perfect, his lungs are perfect, it is absolutely incredible, absolutely incredible! So Pastor Daniel was then taken by his family. He went back to his home village, there was great, great rejoicing. He went back to the doctor who had issued the death certificate. The doctor said “I am absolutely shocked!” He went back to the mortician who fell on his knees and got gloriously saved and born again with his whole family as a result of it. Then neighbors came, the people came, they had to hide him just for a couple of days just to kind of recuperate. Now he joined me on the conference in Vienna. In Austria he gave his testimony there. It is amazing! He has framed his Death Certificate; I think is the only man on earth who has a framed Death Certificate hanging in his own home.
Sid: What I would like to know Reinhard is during those 3 days that he was dead does he have any recollection of what happened?
Reinhard: He has no recollection of what happened to his body, but this is his story. He says that when he was in the ambulance telling his wife what to do with the church, and what to do with the children, and the home and the house and she was crying and weeping and wailing. He said that suddenly 2 angels entered the ambulance, he knew he was going to die. He said one angel took him by the left hand and the other by the right hand and he left the ambulance. He said to me later “I did not know that I left my body behind.” He was totally oblivious of the fact that he had died and sense of just… in terms of just leaving his body behind. Those 2 angels handed him over to a great majestic angel he said who had treated him as a friend. The first thing that great angel did was given him a notepad, a file as they call it in Nigeria. And he said to Him and that he would take him to places and he would have to write down everything he sees. The first station he took him to was Paradise where he saw the saints worshipping the Lord. He said at first he mistook them for angels but he said these were the saints. He was told that these were the saints worshipping the Lord. My question to him was “Did you see Jesus?” He said “No! I saw a white bright light.” He said I shaded my eyes I tried to penetrate it but my eyes could not penetrate it.” But he said “The saints could look through that light and they were worshipping.” He said “It was so wonderful” he wanted to go in and join them there and just worship and worship and worship. The great angel said to him “No I have to show you more I want to show you the mansions that Jesus has built for His saints. He said “We never travelled, the moment the angel spoke in the twinkling of an eye we were there.” He said “I saw many mansions, fabulous mansions.” He said “So glorious I can’t describe them. It’s like like like like this… like like like that… like like like the other.…” He lacked words to describe what he saw. He said “You know I saw flowers music came out of the flowers. They were waving in rhythm.” He said “It was so fabulous, it was so glorious he just wanted to remain there and stay there. So the angel said to him “The mansions are ready but the saints are not.” So then the angel said to him “I’ve got to show you hell as well.” And he said within a nanosecond he stood with the angel in front of the gate of hell. And he said “Above the gate of hell was written in great letters ‘Welcome to the gate of hell.’”
Reinhard: He said it looked to him as if those gates hadn’t moved in a thousand years. The mighty angel next to him lifted up his hand and when he put down his hand with an awesome noise those gates began to open. In these and he looked right into hell. He said he saw multitudes upon multitudes of people in hell. He said they were all dressed like we are. He said “There were all races, there were black and white, and brown, and yellow, and all shapes and sizes and forms.” And he said “Although I could see no fire these people were in great great torment.” He said “They were cannibalizing themselves, they were eating themselves” he said. “They wanted to die and ate themselves but when they ate themselves the flesh jumped back to the place from which it had been eaten,” then the torment started again. He said “It was so horrible.” He said he saw people screaming at him, they could see him he said but not the angel next to him. One man shouted to him and said “I was a pastor on earth. I was pastoring a church. I stole money from that church. Help me to return that money!” But he said “I could not help anybody,” he said “It shook me so much because I was a pastor myself.” He said “The horror he felt was indescribable and these people were in torments of hell which could not be addicted.”
Sid: Ah Reinhard we’re out of time.