Sid: I have watched this woman on television for many years and I know that she’s red hot for the Messiah. Her name is Karen Wheaton and perhaps you don’t know a whole lot about her although you’ve heard her music. Karen from what I understand you owe quite a debt of gratitude to the inspiration your mother gave you. Tell me a bit about your mom.
Karen: Oh thank you Sid for one thing it’s wonderful to join you on your program today; and I’d love to tell you about my mother. She has been the greatest influence in my life and continues to be. She’s a woman of God, her mother was also filled with the Holy Spirit as with her mother and her mother. So I come from a heritage of strong women that were sold out fully to the things of the Lord and walking it with Him. My mother as a young child encountered the miraculous in her life.
Sid: Tell me one story you remember about your mom in the miraculous.
Karen: This is a simple story. I remember my mother telling me this my whole life. When mother was 6 years she wanted a set of jacks. Now if you remember Sid in the ’40s little girls loved to play with jacks, but in that time because of the war and different things metal jacks were very hard to come by. As a 6 year old little girl my mother asked the Lord to give her a set of jacks. And she didn’t tell anybody, she was on the school bus the next day and sitting on the back of the school bus a young girl about 12 years old gets up walks to the back of the bus hands my mother a little bag and in that bag was a set of metal jacks. Now I know to some people they wouldn’t think that much about that but you know what as a 6 year old little girl it taught my mother that when you ask God something in faith He will answer your prayers. Last week I was praying now and my mother is close to 80, I’m 52 years old. I found myself in prayer last week saying “God thank you for the jacks that you gave my mother because it put faith in her as a little girl that you answered prayer which now has put faith in me that you can move a mountain.
Sid: I have to tell you something. When God does the least thing for me I am so thrilled over this, so I understand that story. Okay your 8 years old you become a believer but you had quite an experience with the Holy Spirit at 8; tell me about that.
Karen: I was 8 years old, I was standing in the Church of God of Prophecy in Hamilton, Alabama where I was raised it was a June summer night. My mother and my grandmother I had seen them filled with the Holy Spirit all of my life and moving in the gifts of the Spirit, healing the sick, ministering to people. I wanted what they had, I was so hungry for the Holy Spirit I was standing in the altar, I can remember it like it happened last night. In fact Sid I still have the dress that I had on that night hanging in my bedroom door right now as I speak.
Sid: I also think you have that same anointing on your voice right now as your telling me that story of what happened when you were eight; go ahead
Karen: Well, He’s the same Holy Spirit right now to me as He was those years ago. Standing in that altar with both hands raised high as I could get them. I had prayed and sought Him until I honestly was soaked with sweat I had tears rolling down my face saying “Oh God fill me with the Holy Spirit, fill me with the Holy Spirit.” I had people praying for me all around me that night as old Pentecostal woman used to do. And all I can tell you Jesus said “Out of our belly would flow a river of living water.” I can remember the moment He came into me in an 8 year old little girl’s body. Out of my belly would flow this water out of my mouth, I began to speak in another language, the language of the Holy Spirit. And He filled me with power and I found that it’s so wonderful. He does not; to children He does not give a junior Holy Ghost, it’s the same Spirit that filled my mother and grandmother and great-grandmother. In fact, He’s the same Spirit that raised Christ Jesus from the dead…
Sid: You know people flip that statement but it is beyond comprehension I hope you heard what Karen Wheaton just said. The same Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead. I mean you’re talking about He took every sin that you’ve ever committed, He took every sickness that has ever tried to come upon you. That same Holy Spirit that was so powerful to raise Him from the dead was in Karen and in you. Karen shortly thereafter you heard the audible voice of God what did He tell you?
Karen: I was walking in the trees behind my house at my grandparents’ home actually, and all I can tell you Sid is that young girl having just received the Holy Spirit I fell in love with Jesus, I fell in love with the presence of God. And it was in those trees, I was walking through there one afternoon in the woods just behind the house and I just sensed that undeniable presence. I heard His voice very simply just simply tell me I was called to preach the gospel. And I knew that I had encountered the true presence of God and the true voice of God.
Sid: And at 11, and I mean now you’re really an old woman, at 11 you had an opportunity to speak at church and the Holy Spirit showed up describe what occurred.
Karen: I was 11 years old when I was singing; do you remember the old song Sid that they used to sing “Jesus, there’s just something about that Name.”
Sid: Yeah, I love it.
Karen: Singing that song and they had given me a recitation for the middle of the song that I was to speak. All I can tell you is while I was speaking I sensed something, someone besides me coming through me and flowing through me. He was a power it was a presence, it was an unction, it was an anointing, I didn’t understand it then to understand that it was an anointing all I knew was I felt an empowerment of the Holy Spirit using the words that were coming out of the voice and the mouth of a little girl. Yet they were having a deep impact on the adults that were hearing them. I didn’t know what it was I just knew whatever this is, and whoever this is, I want Him every time I sing, every time I speak. And I know now Him to be the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
Sid: Tell me about the song “I Have to Believe.”
Karen: I love the message of this song because through the years of walking in faith and standing on the word of God I’ve learned that in every circumstance that we face, and we all face those times of difficulty and impossibility or places of deep hurt or betrayal. Where do you go except to the Lord and you seek Him until you get a word. Now counseling is good, going to other people and talking about these things that you’re facing are…it’s a good thing to do that. But people are limited in what they can do; you seek God until you get a word from God. Once you get a word from God you stand on that word unmoved and believe that promise will come to pass.
Sid: And I believe that as they listen to you sing this right now that they’re going to…that some are going to hear a word; others where the word has died it’s going to come back and their going to cling to it until it manifests. “I have to Believe”
Karen: “I have to Believe” worship excerpt.
Sid: That was Karen Wheaton singing “I Have to Believe,” Now when people hear her music lives are radically changed. Different Psalmists have different anointing’s I believe God has put in an anointing on Karen to push you to passionately worship God. And I also believe that when you listen to her music the same thing that’s happening to me is going to happen to you you’re going to want to pray in tongues and worship and praise God. I’m using her music now to pray in tongues; I did it for a couple of hours the other day.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be so passionate for the Messiah that your life will make a difference. Now I have a young man that’s passionate for the Messiah his name is Shawn Bolz I’m speaking to him at his home in Foley, Alabama he’s with White Dove Ministries. And through a series of coincidences, and I don’t believe they were coincidences I got a hold of his book about a week ago and the title is… and I have to tell you Shawn I’m kind of turned-off not on prosperity but the motive behind a lot of prosperity teaching that goes on. And so when I saw the title my first thought was I’m really not interested in this book and the books only a month old it’s called “Key’s to Heaven’s Economy.” And then I read the subtitle which says “An angelic Visitation from the Minister of Finance.” And I have to tell you what you teach in your book about money and this visitation that you had, and what is about ready to happen on planet earth is what the Holy Spirit has been showing me and it’s so refreshing to have what I call a good… a godly slant on prosperity as opposed to what I see.
Shawn: Wow, I appreciate that I know that the book totally challenged me to write it because I’m not a wealthy man; I’m not someone that’s dealt with lots of finances in the past. So I was shocked when the angel came to me to deal with this kind of subject.
Sid: So why did angel, who identified himself as the Minister of Finance, choose you?
Shawn: I think it had to do with the story in the book which is about my brother and I.
Sid: Why don’t you share that now?
Shawn: Well, my brother died before I was born he was about 4 years old and he was one that brought my whole family to the Lord right before he died. He talked about Jesus and God all the time, my parents weren’t saved and they didn’t know how this little boy had such an encounter with God that he talked about Him all the time. And they were not practicing Catholics, but they came more from a Catholic tradition. So when he died the night he died they had an angelic visitation and they talked to their priest about it and he told them “He told them that they needed to know Jesus, they needed to understand who Jesus was,” and he lead them through a salvation prayer. And so my brother became in some ways and in a different way a martyr for our whole family. So later on as we started on our journey as a family my parents really wanted to raise my sisters and I for ministries for the purposes of the Lord. And so later, 2001, I was on a journey with God I call them journeys where I’m going places as I go on ministry trips sometimes I’ve gone somewhere just because God sends me. I went to a place called Lancaster, California and I heard the Lord speak to me in my room “You have to go to Lancaster, California.” And when I heard that I didn’t know why, it wasn’t a ministry trip, I didn’t know why I was going.
Sid: Had you ever been to Lancaster before?
Shawn: Well, when I was fifteen I actually went to a concert there and so that was the only time; it was a Christian concert and I’d never been back and I didn’t know anybody there it was a knew land for me. But a friend of mine was going to go and do a conference there she’s a minister and so she had asked it I wanted to go. After this I told her about the experience, and she said “Well why don’t you go to this conference maybe God’s going to visit you at my conference.” Which was a beautiful statement and I had a great time at the conference but nothing happen as far as why I thought I was supposed to go there. On my way on that trip I had called my mom and or she had actually called me and she asked “Shawn where are you going this weekend I heard you’re going on a trip, where is it?” And I said “Well I’m going to Lancaster, California because I heard the Lord say “Go get an inheritance from Lancaster.” And she started to cry because she was going up to the Northwest which was another story but she said “Shawn your brother was born in Lancaster, California.” And I never knew that because we’re a military family we hadn’t talked much about his death, we hadn’t talked much about where he was born. We talked a lot about him, but some of the details because it was before I was born.
Sid: Now he died at age 4 from leukemia but go ahead.
Shawn: Yeah and so I just didn’t know much about him and so as far as circumstances and so when I was going back out there to the West Coast from Kansas City I thought, “God what are you doing sending me for an inheritance and how is it linked into my brother’s life who was born there?” And I felt like He was showing me Isaiah 49 verse 8 it says “He’s going to raise us up to reassign desolate inheritances or inheritances that no longer are being picked up or held or championed by anybody.” And so I felt like there was something that God had designed my brother just like He has a plan for all of our lives He had designed a plan for my brother’s life that was cut short by the leukemia and cancer that he had and that God was asking me to go and pick up an inheritance that my brother had walked in and would have fulfilled in his lifetime if he had lived his whole life out. So I went back there under that premise. So when I got there I don’t think, I don’t know that I would have had the angelic visitation if it was about just my calling and the purpose God had invited me into but I know that he was expanding me and asking me to have even more than I had before. I invited me to enter into my brother’s destiny inheritance so that he could still inheritance so that he could still inherit in Heaven from Heaven’s point of view. And so I went out to Lancaster, California and the conference was great but nothing dramatic happened for me it was a good time. And then I went and stay with these people I had met at the conference we just had a Divine connection their last names were the Worthington’s, which I love that name because it was a little hint from God’s heart about what was about to happen about the worthiness of God. I went to their house, woke up one morning all of a sudden as I wake up in the morning I’m not a morning person when I wake up the light was shining in my eyes. And I was facing the windows and they didn’t have window curtains or treatments and so I was facing the windows and the sun was rising in my eyes so I turned around to look the other way and the sun was shining through mirrors that were on the other side of the wall and so I looked down to clear my eyes of the sunlight because it was so bright. And there was a man standing at the foot of my bed and it completely terrified me because I didn’t know these people very well and I didn’t know if some man had come into my room. But then I realized that this man did not look normal; he didn’t look like a…he had some qualities, some supernatural other worldly quality to him which then scared me even more. I was laying there in a very vulnerable position in bed you know looking at this man and a voice came into the room and said “Welcome the Minister of the Finance” into the Kingdom.” And this man was dressed like all I can say is a like a brown burlap it looked like almost like a potato sack robe. But underneath it was hiding something of just the greatness of the authority he carried, there was something underneath that I couldn’t totally see but you could kind of make out of just garments I’ve never seen on earth before.
Sid: What did you feel while this was going on?
Shawn: First of all I felt like “Why in the world was he in my room a minister of the finances of the Kingdom.” Because the only term for the Minister of Finance that I ever heard is a Minister of Finance of America, or a Minister of Kenya, or you know a different country I never heard of an angelic being called the Minister of Finance. I was looking through scriptures saying “What does this mean and who is this and what is this experience.” And so I was immediately like my mind was racing and I had very clear thoughts, but questions with no answers, so I knew I would have to walk out the experience and see why he had come. So he came over to me; he didn’t talk at first, he came over to me and he stood next to me and he began to pull out a number of keys. He had keys in this burlap robe that he was wearing that had pockets and he put them on my chest and he started pulling out every kind of key that you could image there was car keys, and boat keys and house keys and building keys and card keys and new kinds of keys that I think are electronic that we’re going to walk into as a country. And keys I’ve never seen before and then big keys and small keys and he put them all on my chest so it was very weighty and I could feel them in the natural I could feel the weight of them I could feel the coolness of some of them. And he pushed them into me and said he was imparting keys for resources, I knew that I was representing something. I’m not necessarily saying that I will have all these thousands of keys in my life time but because there was several hundred if not a thousand keys. He was pushing them into me and I started to take on an impartation of unlocking of resources that were going to come for the sake of Jesus to get His full inheritance, His full reward. So I began to understand that this encounter was about Jesus getting everything that is His.
Sid: Now the thing that excites me is there’s going to be a mega shift, and most people realize this in the church; we think of the separation of clergy and layman. But what he showed you was there’s going to be this dramatic shift into the world of business and art and finance; explain that.
Shawn: I think that was one of the main points of the whole encounter is that these keys belonged to people who were going to pursue their calling, their destiny in the entertainment industry and in the political arena and in education and in all those different arenas, business and like you said arts. All of these different things were the keys belong to so the keys were to buildings that were like a studio. I saw a studio in California that’s one of the largest studios in California that I’ve never seen with my natural eyes. I saw it in the Spirit, we were hovering over it and that’s part of later on in the story. I saw this studio being unlocked, the keys being giving to either purchase or else to use a good portion of it to a Christian Community of people who are called to make movies in the Hollywood industry that would reflect the glory of God. And what I loved about this is right before the Passion and Narnia, and now we’re starting to see an unlocking of resources and of anointing and of impartation from God’s heart to unlock projects that are open people’s hearts toward redemption message. And so I feel like I saw these keys being released to the person who doesn’t necessarily feel called to the institution of the Church but they feel called to the Kingdom. And so you have…we’ve spent a lot of time ministering to ministers and ministering to people who have a church calling. All of a sudden this Minister of Finances showing me the resources are being provided that people could go out and use those resources to touch every dark place that Jesus could get the fullness of His reward.
Sid: Now we’ll get into this a little later on but the thing that’s so excited me was this mega-shift that is going to be occurring. We were always taught someone has a ministry of business to make money to give it to people like us to do ministry who are called for up front ministry. But you see the ministry actually being what they’re doing.
Shawn: Absolutely, absolutely I think that people are about to understand that the very, if you look at the scriptures in Joel that the very plowshare or the very hoe or whatever they’re using as a garden tool they’re using, that very thing that they are using to work their fields and to just get their resource and finances for their own life God’s going to say “Turn your plowshares into swords, beat your pruning hooks into spears it’s time for war; it’s time for My purpose.” He’s about to come to the person who feels like they’re in a common role like a housewife or the person who feels like they’re in a common role…
Sid: Ah, I tell you we’re out of time will pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: I have a guest that I believe prophetically is as much a One New Man as I’ve been proclaiming for the last few years. His name is Renny McLean; I caught up with him in a hotel room in Chicago, Illinois, but he’s based in Dallas, Texas. Renny is a real One New Man. And I say that because his mother is Jewish and his father is Jamaican and after all Paul said “Jesus came to break down the middle wall of separation between Jew and Gentile.” But Renny you really are a One New Man!
Renny: (Laughing) I’ve never heard it put that way before but yes that’s true I am.
Sid: And the thing Mishpochah that intrigues me about Renny is he had from a very young age encounters with the Lord; encounters with the invisible world. And he has an insight into something that I’ve been praying for and that I taste but I have not walked into the degree that I want to. And I can tell you from a selfish personal viewpoint I’ve been looking forward to this interview with Renny because he has an understanding of the invisible world that we must. And not just Renny and not just me but you, all of us, that are and you wouldn’t be listening to me if you were not pushing for greater intimacy with God. I’ve been labeling this just because I didn’t have another label but maybe it’s the right one knowing, K-N-O-W-I-N-G, faith; where you know things that are going …that have already happened as a matter of fact because there’s no time in eternity and you just act like an actor on a stage. You hear from God what has already happened in eternity and you just act it out and there isn’t any guess work you don’t have say “Are you healed?” You’ve already seen it happen in the spirit realm. You see the type of faith you would be walking in; that is a higher level than what most people call faith. And Renny has experienced it he’s walked in it. As a matter of fact just to whet their appetite tell me about those deaf people Renny.
Renny: Oh, my goodness you mean, oh you mean the ones that had no ear drums. Yeah well let me give you something, let me explain the whole thing. It was in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; it was 60 that was healed in one night but the miracle of it half of them had no ear drums and they were growing eardrums as they were coming down to testify. So God does those things that’s no question.
Sid: Why wasn’t I there with my television crew Renny?
Renny: I wish you were there Sid. (Laughing)
Sid: I wish that there were a few doctors there too! (Laughing)
Renny: I’m telling you I really do wish they were I mean we’ve had doctors in our meetings sit down and say “If we didn’t believe in God we believe in God now;” we’ve had doctors say it.
Sid: Now of course we hear that accent you were born in England.
Renny: Yes Sir I was born in London, England where the Queen lives God bless her.
Sid: My goodness, what a combination Jamaican, Jewish, and British.
Renny: (Laughing) Yeah, it’s scary.
Sid: My goodness but let the Mishpochah understand a little bit about you. I’m going to take you back to age 7 tell us what happened.
Renny: When I was 7 years of age I had an encounter with Yeshua; I was praying like most children would pray. I was raised in a very unusual household in that my mother had already had an experience with Yeshua; she too had had a supernatural experience and was saved actually before I was physically born.
Sid: I’m a curious type guy could you just very briefly tell me what happened to your Jewish mom.
Renny: Oh yes, my mother met the Lord through visions; she met the Lord through the visions. I’ll tell you what’s so interesting I’ll never forget one day somebody was witnessing to her who was not born again who was not of the House of Israel and she was witnessing to my mother and they said to her “You know it’s the Lord that’s really looked after you all of these years and blessed your life and made the crooked path straight for you.” And then in the middle of the lady witnessing to my mother my mother saw Jesus literally physically appear in the room. And when He appeared my mother fell to her knees and she cried out His Name. You have to remember my Mother was raised in a Jewish household and she cried out His Name and she got saved; born again literally and filled with the Spirit the same moment in time. And so my family in general my family are born again they all had; those who were Jews on my mother’s side they all had super-natural encounters with Yeshua.
Sid: So it’s not an accident when the scriptures say “The Jew requires a sign.”
Renny: Oh, 100% because I can tell you they didn’t believe; I mean Sid I know that you know that this as well or better than anyone I know would know this. Most of us who are Jews if the truth be told we believe in a historical God; but as far as the present movings and manifestations of the Living God now that’s almost hard to grasp. I mean it makes a lot of sense why it’s hard to grasp because you really have to have a revelation of faith.
Sid: You know Renny here’s the sad thing; this is not true for all Orthodox Jews but I went to a traditional Jewish Synagogue for many years and many many of the influential Jews in the synagogue from the pulpit area on down were just really agnostics at best; they had a love for the tradition. A love for the culture, a love for being Jewish, a love for the fellowship of other Jews but knowing God was and believing the scriptures are really from God they considered almost a fantasy.
Renny: Oh, 100% that’s actually you summed it up with real accuracy because that’s been my personal experience. So when my family had basic all of my family that born again they all had encounters with the Lord; so I guess what happened to me wasn’t strange to them. What happened to me was in the middle of praying I was about to go to my bed and then when I went into my bedroom to go to bed all of a sudden the supernatural light of God’s glory came in my room. Out of the light the face of the man Christ Jesus appeared; I saw his whole body torso stand before me. He stood before me and looked about 6′ tall and beside Him were two angelic beings, and nothing but love came out of His eyes. And He looked to me and said “Be not afraid, be not afraid.” He said to me “I’m here to reveal Myself to you.” And when the Lord began to reveal Himself to me He said “I’m going to show you who you are; I’m going to show You what I’m going to use you to do.” And as soon as He said that the four walls in my room fell out and I was not in my bed I was standing before the throne of God. The Lord said to me “I want you to watch and I want you to see.” And the Lord He just spoke and He said “I’m going to send you to the world.” And when He said “The world” it was in a booming voice and it shook every fiber of my being. This voiceprint was in my spirit when He spoke it and it was like it went whoosh. When He spoke the world a globe came straight out of Him and stood before Him. And He said “You will go to the world,” and then He said to me “I want you to watch.” And it was like the Lord flung stars over the nations I was to go to; and He said to me “Take these as signs.” He said “Every place I go I will lead you” and He said “I will guide you.” And He said “You will bring the manifest My name to the nations with signs, wonders and miracles and you will bring the revelation of My faith and My glory to your generation.” That was now 37 years ago.
Sid: But Renny how does a 7 year old handle that type of a visitation?”
Renny: Well with all, because I can remember even as you’re saying it I can feel it like it’s going to happen again. What happened to me Sid was this, when you’re a child and you read the Bible and you’ve not had life’s experiences and you’ve not had certain hardships it’s very easy for you to be naive. People would say naive but I would honestly say “Innocent” because a child really and truly is innocent. And I think that’s why Yeshua used the expression childlike faith because a child when it comes to believe incredible things could easily grasp that more than an adult. And I’d have to honestly say I did not have any pre-tradition; I didn’t have enough tradition in me to make me question what I experienced because what I encountered the Lord and what He really came and manifested Himself to me my life was changed forever.
Sid: Would you say that the points you’re just making which are so important; I’m asked all the time “Sid why do I hear about these people in Africa and in Russia and in India that they have such miracles and they’re the same people in the US and they don’t have the miracles. It’s in the US we are so cerebral and we have lost our innocence.
Renny: Oh is that is so prophetic that’s true because I’ll tell you something Sid you know what God just spoke to me as you just said it to me; I’ll tell you what He just said to me because in the west we eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We eat from the tree of reason; our own reason. The Bible says “Lean not to your own understanding.” And it’s in the western world there is two things that I would say why we have this over here. Number one I’d say it’s because of the first reason I would say this “In Africa and in Asia they already believe in the spirit realm so you don’t have to convince them about the spirit realm they already believe in it.” But just when we go there and we preach Jesus to them and they see the real thing they believe it. But over in the western world we do not believe in the spirit realm, it’s played about with; people just toy around with it but as far as step into it the church really doesn’t step into it.
Sid: Renny hold that thought.
Sid: Now most of you are familiar with the past revivals that have occurred in the United States; especially the most recent one that happened in Pensacola, Florida, Brownsville, Smithton, Missouri, the Toronto Airport Church. Well I have an individual here that says that God has shown him that when we combine the glory of God and reaching the Jew there will be an explosion in the spirit like this earth has never seen before. He’s not just talking about it he is demonstrating it. His name is David Herzog and I caught up with him in Edmonton, Canada. Now David is a Jewish believer in the Messiah that moves in, and David excuse me for a moment because we don’t know each other well, but I have to say it outrageous signs and wonders. Now David is it really true that you had a meeting in Augusta, Georgia and you had a word of knowledge and a man that was bald instantly got his hair back. Is that really true?
David: Yeah, it really happened and actually we have a picture of it on our website.
Sid: Did this shock you at the time, did this astound you at the time or did you expect something like that?
David: Yeah, I’m always amazed when God does these things but I had seen it several times before. We had seen bald heads get hair in different places like Portland, Oregon, and New Zealand but every time that happens it’s just totally amazing to me.
Sid: Now this guy in Augusta notes say that he had a little bit of gray hair but when he had his full head of hair it came back black?
David: Yeah, the top of his hair was completely bald but at the end of the meeting he had hair all over the top of his head. The back of his head he had a little bit of hair which was gray and by the end of the meeting I have a picture of that one too; you see where the gray has turned back to the original black hair color and you still see parts of the gray left. And so God had kind of left a memory of what he had.
Sid: Now we’re on a couple of radio stations in the New York City area and of course there’s the whole diamond industry in New York City David. And I want to provoke a few of these diamond merchants that are listening to us right now to jealousy; is it really true that diamonds materialize at your meetings?
David: Yeah, not at every meeting it’s just the Lord kind of chooses which meeting.
Sid: Well, could you tell me what meeting so I could go there and get a few; no I’m just teasing go ahead (laughing).
David: We had it first in Holland we had it happen and in different countries life in Holland we had a jeweler that was there; so you know the European are the more skeptical anyway. So when the diamond appeared this girl found it; of course a girl found it because girls love diamonds; and she picked it up and said “Wow, this is really true look at this perfectly cut diamond.” And a jeweler came and said “Well, let me check it out I’ve got my instruments with me right here.” He had it with him in the meeting; and he went and checked it out and he was like “Hmm, hmm, hmm interesting interesting.” And he confirmed it to be a real diamond and said “Worth a lot of money.” We’ve had it happen once in Miami where 13 diamonds appeared in 2 or 3 days.” We’ve had people with fake diamonds on their jewelry turn into real diamonds and we’ll have them checked; so it’s amazing thing.
Sid: Oh, my wife will want to come to your meeting too. Let’s kind of go back a little bit, now you were not raised in a Jewish environment even though your father was Jewish and that makes you Jewish. And you came to an understanding, the same understanding I might add, that I have come to; but the fact that I was raised in a Jewish environment and then became a believer for the first 30 years of my life at a traditional Jewish environment and then became a believer in Jesus. You were although you’re Jewish you were raised in a non-Jewish environment; that makes it even more amazing that you came to the same conclusion but before we even talk about that, there’s an operative key word that I picked up in my notes about you. And that is before any of this every happened you experienced a hunger for more of God; tell me about that.
David: Yes, when I was 10 I got saved; 13 filled with the Holy Spirit and from that time on just an incredible hunger for more of God’s presence. You know I grew up in a…
Sid: Now does this come from God or this something we drum up or because I see this as a common denominator with many people that have been touched with an extraordinary presence of God’s glory.
David: Well, it’s like a cloud; you know a cloud doesn’t produce rain unless there’s pressure put on it atmospheric pressure; so yeah that hunger and that thirst for more of God creates something in the spirit world where God then chooses to manifest Himself.
Sid: What I’m saying right now if we’re talking to people that are not hungry for God; they believe in Him, they love Him but they say “You know the truth is I’m pretty passive in this area. Is there something I can do about that or should I… or does it all come from God and I’ll just wait for Him to make me hungry?
David: Yeah, well first of all they can say “God,” be honest with Him say “Lord I’m not hungry but I know I need to be; help me make me hungry.” Second thing they can do is repent of being apathetic; a lot of times repentance of being apathetic “Lord, if they’re single I’m just not fired up taking it as I need to be Lord forgive me for allowing distractions or whatever it is it’s hindering me from making You everything Lord.” A lot of times it’s just making everything in life more valuable to them so they’re not on fire as other people.
Sid: Well, that’s a good start you got hungry but then God told you and your family to leave everything and go the nations.
Sid: Now it’s easy to read about people that do that but when it happens to you were you excited or were you filled with fear.
David: Oh, I was excited because I was young about 23 and God said “Just go the nations and we’d been gone to just tons of different nations. To start off, “He said go to Paris France.” The first place He told me to go which is you know not the easiest place in the world.
Sid: No, it’s known as a very tough place for Christianity.
David: Yeah but yet but God… we’ve seen God do awesome, awesome things. We’d been doing glory campaigns and just everything I’m telling you is happening pretty much everywhere we go; you know there’s no difference with God where He goes.
Sid: Okay, so from there you hooked up with a tour with Christ for the Nations to go see Israel and on this tour you too had an experience in the upper room; tell me about it.
David: Yes I was over there and we took our team and as we were there worshiping the Lord together this man ran in there a Jewish… I think he was a Messianic Jew. He ran in there and said “Quickly pray for me I don’t know you but the Holy Spirit told me to come here I’m leaving to the nations and the Lord told me someone here would pray for me.” So we all began praying for him; I began praying for him and the man looked at me and said “Give me a word from the Lord.” To make a long story short, at the end we just kept worshiping the Lord and I got knocked out onto the floor by the power of God which never happens to me. I usually resist people trying to push me down but this God. And I began weeping, weeping, weeping, weeping uncontrollably for like a couple of hours after that. Didn’t know what was happening but something new outpouring of the Holy Spirit was coming upon my life I believe for what we are seeing today.
Sid: And then you were led to go to a renewal meeting in Toronto, Canada; what happened to you there?
David: Oh I went there actually preached at a Methodist church; my wife’s uncle is a pastor there and I don’t think they’re Spirit Filled. So we went there to preach in this church. And on the way I heard about this other move in Toronto and several people told me “What don’t you go check it out?” It was early in ’94 before it was really well known. Got up there to check it out and I said “Wow, this is different.” And different kind of things were happening in the meeting. And the pastor there said “If you’re a believer or if you are a missionary or if you are a pastor or evangelist or whatever ministry come up here we would like to pray for you.” So I went up and got prayer; got slain in the Spirit again; it felt like the same thing that I felt in the upper-room which was amazing. But if didn’t do anything else didn’t laugh or cry or shake or whatever people do and I just felt a peace; so I thought “Well that was good been there done that.” Left, when to the Methodist Church to preach and all of a sudden the power of God exploded into that church, not only were there miracles, signs and wonders. People were just drunk in the Spirit; everything was happening.
Sid: Now for those that aren’t familiar with drunk in the Spirit it’s not without precedence; that’s what the first Jewish believers were accused at what is known of as Pentecost Shavuot but this was just a non-Charismatic type of environment correct.
David: Exactly, yeah they weren’t used to anything miracles or people uncontrollable joy or healings or anything like that.
Sid: Now when this first presence of God came on you in the upper-room you started to evangelizing Jewish people.
David: Yeah, about 13 people received the Lord on that trip; the Lord told me if I would touch Israel, the apple of God’s eye He would give me the nations. And I thought the best way to bless Israel is not just say “You know hold your fingers up and say “Peace.” But bring them the King of Glory, Yeshua, and that would make a difference in people’s hearts. So we had about 3 Arabs receive the Lord and about 10 Jewish people receive the Lord on that first trip. And it led to about 5 years of non-stop revival after that trip.
Sid: David I’m featuring your book this week called “Mysteries of the Glory.” I want to read a sentence form the introduction. “Those who seek the new will find it; while those who are content with their anointing and walk with God will not see the next move of God.” I agree totally with that, what’s happening when people read your book because the intent is to make them hungry for the glory, and then show them actually step by step how to enter into the glory. Give me an example of someone that has read the book or sat under your teaching on the glory and what’s happened.
David: Okay, let’s say a minister and let’s say your listing and you have a ministry and you’re thinking God I have a ministry but I want to move in a greater realm of God’s glory. There is a difference between on your life the way I see it and the glory directly from heaven. We all have an anointing when we receive the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit. For instance healing; we hands on the sick and they recover but that was just the first way that start healing the sick. Acts Chapter 2 was one wave of glory where people went out and laid hands on the sick and cast out demons and preached the gospel and people were added to the church. But Acts 4 it was like a greater glory began to come and it says, “Lord now stretch out Your hands to heal and now let there be signs and wonders.” So I noticed that in the glory realm as it increases there’s more signs and wonders as opposed to healings, there’s more creative miracles as opposed to just miracles.
Sid: Now, are you seeing more results instantly happen when the glory comes then when you lay hands on the sick?
David: Yeah, well before I would only lay hands on the sick and then God told me when My glory overshadows your anointing that’s on you when that glory from above comes in yield you’re anointing to my glory. When that would happen then God would say “Don’t lay hands on them now; Acts Chapter 4 “Let me stretch out my hand directly.” So I wouldn’t lay hands and God would say “You just say these few words of knowledge and whatever it is and tons of people.
Sid: Whoops we’re out of time.
Sid: My guest and friend Dr. Gary Whetstone has been a guest before and Gary told us about an encounter. Now Gary shame on you all the years I’ve known you you’ve never told me about such a life changing encounter not just for you but every member of your church. Not just for you and every member of church everyone that’s listening to us. How could you’ve have kept it quiet so long?
Gary: Oh, I’m not keeping it quiet Sid it’s shouted from the house tops.
Sid: Okay but I wish I had known this earlier I can’t wait to make this available to my Mishpochah. You see in 2005 Gary was in Israel, my favorite country, and he was planning to have a tour and he was doing a little video clip to encourage people to go to Israel and it’s a beautiful view and he’s looking over the I believe it was the Mount of Olives; and he and his wife Faye are telling how wonderful and by the way you are wetting my appetite to go to Israel again when you were describing what you were seeing. But then all of a sudden he went into an open vision; just out of curiosity Gary does this happen often to you or was this a highly unusual thing?
Gary: This was a very highly unusual event; I’ve had many visions of the Lord that are visions in spirit and consciousness where you can perceive what God is doing but you’re still aware of your environment. But an open vision removes you from all natural senses; you are identified as a person in it but you are completely enveloped totally in an entirely different environment that God reveals.
Sid: Now how long did this vision take?
Gary: Well, this vision only lasted maybe two minutes but it felt like it was four or five hours of it; I just felt like I was just in this.
Sid: You know I’ve heard this happen to a lot of people where it’s short period of time but so much is downloaded in them that because they’re in a realm where there isn’t any time. So we’re the only ones stuck with time.
Gary: Absolutely, time is gone in the revelation of God; time is what God owns it’s not what rules Him.
Sid: Okay, tell me what this vision was, and by the way I noticed your wife was looking at you as if she understood something very significant was happening or did she?
Gary: Faye knows when the Spirit of God is moving in my life; I mean we’re one in covenant and spirit; we’re married 41 years; we had nine months off for bad behavior but 41 years and covet marriage now and she knew God was revealing. And so she was aware you could see in the video she’s looking over at me and I’m standing on the Mount of Olives looking over at the Eastern Wall of the Old City and all of a sudden the world just vanished. And I watched humanity by like marching in streams of 10,000′s upon 1,000′s upon 1,000′s of people just marching. And something was very unique with it because I could see the masses but I knew them individually. And they came from barbarous times in the very beginning and they went from the very early days of humanity like from Nomadic atmosphere of living with animal claws on and things of that nature. And every single one of them God was speaking “Hear My voice;” and I’m watching. I’m standing there but I’m not standing any longer on the Mount of Olives I’m standing in an open manifestation of God speaking “Hear My voice; hear My voice.” And as I heard His voice speak to people some completely were oblivious to it and just marched on and lived their life out and I watched everyone march. And some went into a fire they were just completely consumed. I watched person after person whole civilizations; I watched them some very awesome things that happened where people heard the voice of God ignored Him and they built entire civilizations. I mean built not just castles and servitude of people like a pharaoh, or one of the mullahs, or the leaders of the religious group, but the reality of God giving them the power to create an entire civilization out of their ideals and values. As they march forward no matter how good it was, not matter how excellent it was; how much benefit it created humanity everything that God did not say was completely consumed as they walked forward.
Sid: Now did you have any insight as… this is going to be a difficult question maybe it’s too difficult, but when Christians were involved what percentage would you say of Christians are following God verses following good things with their whole lifetime?
Gary: Sid as I could see time and man through time going on this march and then I watched people that experienced the Living God; I watched them in old times; I watched them in new times as time marched on. The people that heard God and did what He said as they marched forward there was no fire they just marched on and life went into Glory they just continued. Then I watched people that heard God and received what He said but did things their way; acted out of the natural environment; did things out of pressure, listened to the voices of others. And they marched forward but everything they built was burnt. I watched whole corporation’s mammoth city structures and edifices completely consumed build by believers because their works were not from God. It wasn’t that they weren’t from God; it’s what they heard wasn’t from God; the values; the motivations the instruction path, the thought patterns that they had adopted. They wanted God to engage what they were doing but as they went on in life God kept on speaking to them “Hear My voice, hear My voice” and they just did what they wanted to do and everything they did was burnt. The shock was these people I knew at the end; I’m coming up to the era of my life and I watched people that I knew spiritual leaders in the Body of Christ, and I watched when they heard the voice of God and they obeyed what He said and the power and the majesty and the multiplication that took place out of what they said when God spoke what He said in them and they said and God did. And then I watched them listen to marketing plans to outreach areas to things that they could build that would enhance what they’re doing.
Sid: I have to tell you I’m in the midst of Christian religious media and it stinketh as King James would say; but most people are doing these things.
Gary: Yeah, and that’s exactly what I’m watching; I’m watching people at the end of this vision that I know and I’m shocked in my spirit because I’m seeing where they went off and how when they marched through life I watched some of them completely have everything burnt. They themselves went on into God but what they built was burnt, even though it had the name of Jesus.
Sid: You know we have one life; who would want everything you worked for your whole life whether you have a gigantic ministry or whether you’re a layman standing up for Jesus; who would want your whole life’s work burnt?
Gary: Sid, this is so serious in the spirit, I mean my life shock to the core of my being as I’m watching and I’m seeing people that I knew. The most incredible overwhelming thing that happened at the end of this I saw myself and I’m walking; I’m hearing God’s voice and God is taking me as I’m watching myself through time and there’s myriads of people when God speaks to me; there’s plethora of people being affected by what God says. Then I watched me listening to the voices of men that I trust but the voices that they were speaking from was not the voice of God. It was a voice of reason, it was a voice of logic, it was a voice of how it works in this world.
Sid: You know what scares me so many believers are led by prophets and prophesy rather than the Spirit of God. Who says those prophets or the prophecy is even God.
Gary: Oh, that is so critical I mean I just I shook when I watched myself because I knew when I watched that if wasn’t God speaking. And your answer to that question is you can never follow prophecy, you can only follow the written word of God and the voice of God in your spirit. If by some grace that God has given a person that speak to edification, exhortation or comfort it is accurate it will always confirm, it will never lead you.
Sid: And that’s the key it confirms it’s under the New Covenant; under the Old Covenant we needed prophets.
Sid: Now we need prophets only to confirm.
Gary: To confirm, to encourage us, to comfort us, to empower us. But we cannot rely on man; we cannot have our confidence in flesh. I don’t care how glorious and how powerful, how effective God uses them out confidence must be in Christ Himself…
Sid: Okay bottom line, because we’re running out of time right now Gary before you started teaching this to others you implemented in your own life. Tell me two or three bullet points of the changes that occurred in your life very quickly.
Gary: Well what happened when I saw that God was speaking and I did things that God didn’t say; I built things God didn’t say build. I came back to America when we came back from Israel and we shut down. I closed churches, I sold buildings, I shut departments of ministry down; I cut all kinds of things off because I knew where they came from. I knew that the origin of the information that I was acting on as much as I wanted God to bless it God was not speaking it.
Sid: Okay, because of time we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast.