Sid: I have a former Muslim that is red hot for Jesus. His name, we’re not giving him… giving you his Muslim name, nor the country he was born in the Middle East because of security reasons for his own safety. His name is Samuel Lee I’m speaking to him by way of long-distance in Amsterdam, Holland where his office is located. Samuel we were talking about how God has allowed you to walk in the miraculous. I believe there is no way you could ever reach Muslims if you did not walk in the miraculous.
Samuel: That’s correct, that’s correct.
Sid: I want you to tell me about one campaign we were talking about earlier in West Africa. It’s a Muslim nation, I imagine it’s almost a little dangerous to preach the gospel there. Tell me about it.
Samuel: Yes I was in West Africa Republic of Guinea one of the Muslim nations. One of the least reached countries in black Africa. I was in Conakry holding a crusade there. Let me tell you before I arrived there they just took my passport in the airport and they would not give it to me for 3 days. They were troubling me for holding the crusade there in the Muslim country. Then we had this you know fear that people really they were bringing so much fear into our hearts “You need to be careful there are going to attack you. They’re going to kill, and they are going to do this and you need to be careful with this crusade that you are doing…” So the devil really tried all his ways. Also they told us that Reinhard Bonnke was there. As far as I know they told me 1992 ever since he didn’t go back there again, that is was they told me I don’t know whether it is true. I was the 2nd evangelist holding that open air crusade in Conakry. Now what happened with all this fear in my heart, of course I’m ministering for Jesus Christ in the name of Jesus but I’m also a human being. So I had a little fear in my heart what is going to happen in this crusade. Then I was holding this open air crusade and I was preaching about the healing power of Jesus Christ that He can heal people, He can set them free. There was Muslims and even some Imams they were standing there and listening to my sermon. Suddenly from the back of the, you know, the multitudes in the back of the multitudes…
Sid: Imam is a leader in the Muslim faith.
Samuel: Yes exactly he is a Muslim leader he’s like a pastor or something like that.
Sid: Okay then what happened?
Samuel: What happened was this group of people they start to run and I was thinking “Oh my God this is the end they are going to rush the platform and this is the end…”
Samuel: “…of my life I’m going to be with Jesus.” I was so afraid that “God please do something.” Suddenly my interpreter said “Don’t be afraid there is nothing wrong here there is a crippled man who couldn’t walk for many years and his hands, his arms were crippled, his legs were crippled, he couldn’t walk properly. He just jumped and he was running in the field and he was rejoicing in the Lord that he is running in the field because of that people saw the miracle, live miracle that is happening to him.” They ran behind him and rejoiced with the old man and that was one of the miracles that comes in my mind right now.
Sid: Now did many of the Muslims at that meeting accept Jesus?
Samuel: Yes! A lot of Muslims accept Jesus and many of them were healed by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Sid: I want to take you back to a prayer meeting at your church on October 10, 1997.
Sid: Now was this in Holland?
Samuel: Yes this was in Holland and this was in former ministry building. We started in a very poor and old building. You know it was wooden building as I preach in sometimes the rain would fall inside.
Sid: Now was this the building you talk about in your book that the Holy Spirit told you about?
Samuel: No this is the second building.
Samuel: The first building we grow bigger so we move to the other building. But the thing is that in that building in that wooden building as we were praying it was exactly 10 October 1997. Suddenly the Holy Spirit entered into that room I was praying only with my team members. I have a wonderful team who are supporting my ministry standing behind me and we were having this prayer meeting. Suddenly the Holy Spirit you know came down and they started to be drunk in the spirit. It was so powerful that suddenly there was this you know it was like the room for children, Sunday school room. So there was a football there in the room suddenly the spirit brought me to that ball and said “Take this in your hands! Take this in your hands this is the world and I’m going to put the anointing of world evangelism upon your shoulders. I’m going to use you to the many different parts of the world to preach and proclaim Jesus Christ.” In the beginning I didn’t believe it, I didn’t believe it with all my heart. I said “No maybe I just imagined it. Maybe I’m too high for myself.” Then after the meeting finished 3 sisters confirmed the same vision that we need to start the world evangelism that we need to share the gospel to all over the world. Believe it or not from the 2 days or 1 day later I already received my invitation.
Sid: Now it sounds like that was such an awesome move of God’s Spirit. When God’s Spirit came in there you said the people were all drunk in the spirit? Tell me about that.
Samuel: They were all drunk in the spirit, they were like you know like drinking wine spiritual wine. It was so powerful I cannot explain how it is unless you yourself get that and experience yourself what that is.
Sid: Now does this happen often to you or did it just happen that one time?
Samuel: No no it happens often as the ministry, as the Holy Spirit leads, as the Holy Spirit moves in my meetings. Now of course not every meeting is like that there are some meetings were people weep, there are some meetings people they are just quiet. There are some meetings people are drunk in the Holy Spirit it depends on the time and the will of the Holy Spirit how He is going to do it in the meeting.
Sid: Now you get some very specific words of knowledge give me an example.
Samuel: Very interesting example is, one day we had a prayer meeting in our ministry. Then I start to you know pray in tongues and you know in our room we have the map of all over the world with specific countries we are praying for. Then suddenly the Lord turned my finger to the map of Korea, South Korea and He gave a word let’s say prophecy and also a word of knowledge. He said that “They have lost their first love. The church…” He said “My people in Korea they started spiritual but they are ending non-spiritual.” He said “That richness has touched them and because of richness they have forgotten Me.” Then He said “Therefore I will strike you and after I strike you I will build you up again and out of you I will call a new generation, new people with new anointing that will yield to My voice. I will shake that nation again before I will shake North Korea.” Believe it or not one week later the market crashed and Korea’s markets were all broken. People lost their jobs and they lost their businesses and through that many of them came back to the Christ, the real Christ not the theological Christ, not Christ of rule or regulation, not the Christ they worship through one man or one pastor but the living Christ the living Yeshua. Now God is choosing new generation right in Korea and bringing new moves right in that land and changing the church upside down.
Sid: You know as a new believer Samuel Lee you were instructed by the Lord to start a Bible study but you didn’t know that much about the Bible yourself let alone run a study. How did you do that?
Samuel: Well what happened was of course I was trained by some pastors who were training me and blessed me and of course of the Holy Spirit told me I must train you know my people, the people who are you know under me. Of course I’m coming from a university background so I have you know… I’m well trained in methodology and I’m well trained in you know science. So the Lord says he’s going to use all these things to glorify His name. He said “Start writing these Bible studies, start to begin with the book of Matthew every chapter and design a Bible study book for 52 weeks for every week one lesson. Be consistent and be faithful to this because I’m going to use that one day.” When I started people laughed at me, people sometimes didn’t even come to my meetings. They say “Oh this is a joke,” but I kept writing it I kept doing it. Believe it or not, that book is already published and it is used in many places in Africa and in Asia as a Bible study book in Bible colleges. All of that I have received through one man, through one personality He is my best friend, He is the greatest I have ever had in my life. Let me tell you His name His name is Holy Spirit my best friend. He teach me and He guide me then through that I design that Bible study book and even I have finished one new book under the Old Testament.
Sid: Now you have seen so many miracles people that are blind, get their site back, asthma, heart conditions been healed, tell me about that person with the broken bone in their arm.
Samuel: Yes there is this lady she had a long time ago an accident, a car accident, therefore her arm somehow was broken and they put back, you know they healed it but the arm was not straight it was not healed in the right way. So it was like little bit you know… how can I explain it?
Sid: Oh yes we understand.
Samuel: It was not straight. Then this lady she always trying to go to acupuncture, she was going to all this you know these other things…
Sid: New Age.
Samuel: Yes to heal her arm. She couldn’t receive any healing…
Sid: Quickly we’re running out of time.
Samuel: Yes. So what happened I prayed for her and she was touched by the power of the Holy Spirit one hour on the ground. Then she woke up, then she stand up she was totally healed and the arm…
Sid: I have a couple that is red hot for the Messiah I’m speaking to them at their home and office in Coconut Creek, Florida Bob and Joan Nast. In 1980 Bob it looked like it was the end of the world for you actually were involved in counterfeiting 6 million dollars?
Bob: Yes Sir.
Sid: It sounds almost like something you’d watch on TV you don’t talk to real people that are doing that. How in the world did you get into that?
Bob: Well I guess the spirit of greed come all over me this was of course before I was saved. And I got involved with some people we had some situations up in New York and I was always very legal and I just felt like the system let me down and I was about to do it on my own.
Sid: Well a miracle happened I mean an absolute miracle happened. You were supposed to get up to 60 years in prison.
Sid: What were your thought were you like well I just accepted this or what was going on inside of you you weren’t a believer in Jesus at the time? But your family is now going to be almost widowed and orphaned what was going on inside of you?
Bob: A lot of turmoil I was confused I didn’t know really what to do. But you know God is so honorable and he is so wonderful he had our 14 year old daughter that was saved and praying for us and they had our church praying for us. And one day one Sunday my 3 children and my wife and myself we were sitting in the bedroom which we always had a very good relationship with our children we always told them everything that we did right or wrong. And Sid we were sitting there and I was going on telling them that this Thursday we’re going away I’m going to the hearing because we had plead guilty and we’re going for sentencing. And Sid the television was on and all of a sudden I heard this man, and I found out later who it was I think his name was Hal Lindsey and he was talking about “The Late Great Planet Earth.” And I looked at the television and I looked at my kids and what’s he talking about hear what he just said? He said “Jesus is coming back to this earth and he told and he told about his book “The Late Great Planet Earth.” And after I got finished with it he says you know he says “I would like anybody out there that would like to go when Jesus comes back or to go and be in heaven and have and have every lasting life.” And I said “You know I don’t know what he’s saying but we have to say this prayer.” So all of us said this prayer, me not knowing what I was saying my wife didn’t know and my 2 boys but my daughter knew what we were doing because she had been praying for the last year for us. And after we said the sinners prayer and I didn’t realize I mean I didn’t have any you know I didn’t have any great things happen at that time I mean I mean no bells to whistles went off but we said the prayer. And then Hal Lindsey pointed his finger out at the television and said “There’s a man out there that’s going through a lot of situations and he’s in a lot of trouble.” I looked at the television like “Sure, there’s a lot of people out there like that that’s what came through my mind.” He said “But you’re going to hear the words I don’t know why I’m doing this and he said just remember those words” he said “Because they’re right from…there straight from the throne room of heaven.” So that was it and I didn’t think anymore of it.
Sid: So you went for the hearing and what did they sentence you to?
Bob: Well we went to the hearing and I was first and I stood before the judge and the judges everybody calls them the hanging judge because he looks like Judge Roy Bean because he has the handle bar mustache.
Sid: Oh just what you need (Laughing.)
Bob: I mean I looked at that and I said “Oh brother.” And all of the attorneys…the attorneys thought I would wind up with about 20 years. Which at that time 20 years it’s so confusing I didn’t even think how long 20 years is but when I look back my Lord 20 years is a long time.
Sid: It’s a lifetime.
Bob: It is and so I stood the before the judge and he read off the charges and he had…because we counterfeited 6 million dollars we didn’t counterfeit it all but that’s what we were going to do. We had sold to a secret servant agent one of the partners that were involved…
Sid: Well if you’re going to mess up you might as well mess up all the way I mean sell your counterfeit money to secret service agent (Laughing.)
Bob: (Laughing) This is the one time we’ll take the first shot and you know we’ll never do this again. But that’s not true.
Bob: It’s just like the drug people up there they think they’re going to make their millions and then say well that’s it for the rest of their life. No it’s a spirit of greed that gets in there and money becomes their God and they’re ruined.
Sid: So what was your sentence?
Bob: So standing there in front of the judge and he read off the charges and I pled I guess I said “I guess I’m guilty.” So he looks down and he reached…you know they do an investigative report when you go for sentencing. I had some situations in New York and some problems and he was going through this file and going through this file and sees all of these other things. All of a sudden he closes the file and he looks into my eyes and he said “I get so choked up about this every time (crying), he looks into my eyes and says I don’t know why I’m doing this but I feel like you’ve been through enough he said I’m going to give you 6 months in the federal penitentiary of your choosing.” Everybody was blown away. The attorney’s mouth dropped open.
Sid: Why did he do that?
Bob: I don’t know all I know is it was the power of God that was going through him and had won favor with God and that’s why there was no other explanation.
Sid: Alright so you’re off to prison now but you still have this daughter Joan that’s nagging you to go to church. But what was going on in your life at that time?
Joan: Well that previous year when we got in trouble my mother died and prior to that my sister of 25 years died. Bob’s father died 2 weeks after my mother and his mother died before that. We had actually 6 deaths the oldest person was I think 59 the youngest my sister was 25. My daughter was not well at the time she was having bleeding at the time she was having bleeding eternally and we couldn’t figure out why. I was depressed I was using cocaine every day drinking like a fish using every kind of drug from Quaaludes to speed to uppers and downers. I hated the world I didn’t want to live but I didn’t know how to die. I was depressed and because we hung out with a lot of people in the mafia I was very lonely because I had to separated myself from these people so I didn’t have anybody close to me. And when Bobby went off the depression got even greater because of all the loses in my family and getting separated from the people in the underworld I was dealing real estate but I had no one that I could talk to. And I didn’t think that God even wanted to hear me because of everything we had done wrong. And growing up Catholic when you do as many things wrong as we had done you were almost guaranteed you were going to hell. We didn’t know about forgiveness so every day my daughter would come home and say “Mom why don’t you come to church and get yourself right with God?” And you know I’m not going to watch you kill yourself it’s bad enough daddy’s in prison but I’m not going to watch. And I said “Leave me alone.” And she say “Come to…you know come and meet these nice people.” And I said “They’re a bunch of holy rollers and I don’t want to know them I’m different I’m bad, I take drugs, I don’t belong with those people.” And she would turn on TBN and I would turn it off every day we’d go through this. Finally one night I went to a health party with one of our very very rich friends at the time. And I don’t remember coming home I did drugs, I smoked pot I used cocaine and I drank and I had to drive maybe 15 – 20 miles and I do not remember even coming home. I got to my house I drove up on the lawn I lived up in the Country Club. I drove up on the lawn and I passed out right on the steering wheel. My kids heard the horn blowing they came down and they were 14, 16 and 17. They came out and they carried me into the house. They carried me to bed and they sat there with me. When I came to whatever time it was I got up and I guess it was accommodation of everything but I believe now that as I look back I was having a nervous breakdown. And the drugs did everything to start it off. I opened up the refrigerator and took everything out and threw it on the floor. I opened up my kitchen cabinets smashed every dish I had, coffee pots, emptied drawers out. I totally wrecked my kitchen and everything that was in there. My kids heard the commotion came out and the 3 of them my 2 sons and my daughter literally almost tied me up and put me in bed and sat there until I finally went to sleep. But when I got up in the morning I mean these wonderful kids of mine who had never done a thing wrong, never did drugs, never smoked, nothing like their parents, thank God but that’s prayer. And when I came down the whole kitchen was cleaned up and I couldn’t even…there was no coffee pot because my coffee pot was glass. And my daughter came out and she had her arms crossed and she looked at me and said “If you don’t get help right now I am running away from home.”
Joan: And I said “Evette, Evette and I thought in my mind I could not take another lose. The boy in my dreams…my husband I been with since I was 15 years old the only man in my life was in prison with seemed like it could be forever. Even though it wasn’t going to be but it just seemed that way. Everybody else in my life was gone and I thought “My God my only daughter I couldn’t take that loss.” So she said “Come to church with me this week and I said “No, I’ll go to a drug center I’ll go to AA I’ll go anyplace but not to church any place but the church.” She said “Mom I’m telling you right now if you don’t go I’m running away and you’ll never see me again.” So she called her friends up and told them to call me to pick me up for church the following week. And I fought and I said I didn’t want to but I didn’t want to lose my daughter. So they convinced me that I was in sin…I said to the man that called me “I said Jim I’m a mess Bobby’s in prison we’ve hung out with the mob, I said “We’ve stolen, we’ve done illegal things, immoral things I’m such a mess how could I even walk into a church?” So he said “Joan” he said “You come to God like a filthy rag and you let Him clean you; if you wait until you clean yourself you’ll never get there.” And I said “But I’m this and that.” Anyway he convinced me that they would pick me up on Thursday. And that was December 7, 1980. So we went into the church called “Abundant Life Christian Center” we’ve been there 21 years and when everyone walked in I heard music like I’d never heard before.
Sid: Uh oh but now we’ve got the music called the theme music coming up we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast and you’re going to find out how God didn’t just save her didn’t just set her free but gave them a ministry that’s changing lives.
SID: Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest is the son of one of the greatest healing evangelists in history. He’s the son of Oral Roberts. His name is Richard Roberts. But this is what you don’t know. Five months ago he was activated to a new level of healing. He gets about 20 letters a month from people that have been to their doctor that were healed of cancer. I am expecting, I’m telling you, there’s a word called “expectation,” I am expecting the greatest outpouring of miracles we have ever had. We’re ready for a Holy Spirit explosion.
Is there a supernatural dimension, a world beyond the one we know? Is there life after death? Do angels exist? Can our dreams contain messages from Heaven? Can we tap into ancient secrets of the supernatural? Are healing miracles real? Sid Roth has spent over 35 years researching the strange world of the supernatural. Join Sid for this edition of It’s Supernatural.
SID: I believe that Richard Roberts has done a lot of TV, has his own television show. But something special is about ready to take place here. Now you had such a privilege as a young boy to travel with your father. I want to remind you of something right now and I want you to see it. I would like to have the rolling
of his father and I want you to watch, especially watch this young child as he prays with a child. Let’s see the rolling right now.
Oral Roberts: Be healed from the crown of your head to the soles of your feet. Heal those little legs. Heal them. Heal the little hip. Lonnie, the thing that you’re feeling is God’s presence. You feel something going all through you. That’s the Lord’s power on you. That’s what’s going to make you walk. Bob, you hold those. Mrs. Black, you step over back there at the end of the platform. We’ll soon know what God has done. Put him down there, [unintelligible]. Everybody, mind on God now. Step back, Bob.
SID: Richard, you told me about four months ago, five months ago, there was a prophecy and you started moving in miracles beyond anything you’ve ever done before. Tell me about that.
RICHARD: Well Sid, the healing ministry actually began in my life as a little boy, as you said, growing up in my dad’s ministry, and the effectively through me in 1980 after Lindsay and I were married. But something happened last September. Our mutual friend, Hank Kunneman, a pastor in Omaha—
SID: The guy that prophesied everything you see before it was here.
RICHARD: Yes I know. He told me that there was an even greater level of healing, especially concerning cancer and incurable diseases, and that the numbers of healing would dramatically, and by the way, someone is being healed right now of a migraine headache, he said it would dramatically increase. Within 30 days it happened in October and it’s been happening wherever I go since then. There’s a sciatica nerve being healed right now in the name of Jesus. You’re watching.
SID: I have to ask you this though. Like right this second when you said this person being healed of the migraine, etc., what is it? Is it inner thought? Is it, what’s going on inside of you?
RICHARD: Sid, I actually feel the pain and then I see a person healed of that ailment or affliction, and then when I say it, it’s released. Suddenly as you were talking, I got this sharp pain right here and all of a sudden I saw someone with a migraine headache being healed, and then I said it, and then that pain left. And I felt pain go down my right hip and down my leg, and I saw someone being healed of sciatica problems. And as soon as I said it, that was released. That pain was released from me. That’s how it operates through me. I don’t know how it operates through others. That’s how it operates through me.
SID: Okay. Tell me what happens? You’re walking through a shopping mall with a microphone in front of 10,000, a hundred thousand people.
SID: TV cameras and flashbulbs, well there aren’t flashbulbs any more. I don’t know. But it’s just you and you’re walking down a shopping mall. What happens to you?
RICHARD: If I see someone that’s ill, compassion comes up. You know they said of Jesus in Matthew 14:14, he went forth, he saw a great multitude, he was moved with compassion. Compassion is an irresistible urge to remove the problem, to reach in, take hold of the problem and pull it out. And that comes on me whenever I see someone ill in a shopping mall, in a theater, in a restaurant, in an airport. It just, I have to get over close to them. If I can’t touch them I want to breathe a prayer over them as I walk by. That’s the compassion of the Lord.
SID: The most exciting thing that I read about your dad, you witnessed. Your dad went into, they used to have tents of the people who were paralyzed.
SID: Or in stretchers and things like this.
SID: And he went into that tent and there was someone dying of cancer, and the smell was so horrific because the guy was dying.
SID: Tell me what you observed.
RICHARD: Well I was there. My father stretched out his hands to pray for him and instead of praying for him, he just threw up because the smell of the cancer was so bad. And my dad turned and walked out of the, what he called the invalid tent. He walked out, just left me there standing. I was just a little boy, but I remember it like it was yesterday. But a moment or two later he came back in and he got up on the hospital gurney that the man was laying on, and laid his hands on him, and then took him in his arms, and prayed for him. And then we went on back into the main service. And I never understood until years later after my mother went home to be with the Lord, my father and I were talking one afternoon in his home, and we were reminiscing. And I brought up that subject to him, and I said, “Dad, I never understood why you left and why you came back.” And he laughed, and he said, “When I got outside, I said to the Lord, this is too difficult.” He said, “I was being opposed so heavily by the media at the time. Here I’m trying to get people saved and healed, and people hated me.” And he said, “It’s too difficult. I can’t do this any more.” And he said, “I got outside and the Lord spoke to me and said, ‘If you’re not willing to pray for him then you’re not worthy to be my child.’” And he said, “That’s when I came back in the room and I took the man in my arms and prayed for him.” And my dad was like that until the day he went home to be with the Lord. If he saw someone ill he had to get near them. And if he couldn’t touch them he had to at least reach out his faith and prayed for their healing, and that compassion is on me. Just stretch your hands out towards me right now. Not that my hands have any power because they don’t, but they’re hooked up to the one who does. So in the authority of the name of Jesus, I pray right now for the compassion of the Lord, here it comes, for the compassion of the Lord to flow right through me right into you. From the crown, here it comes, from the crown of your head even to the soles of your feet, that you, like Jesus, will be touched by the infirmities of the people, and it will cause you not to make you move away from them, but a way, a move toward them for healing in Jesus’ name.
We’ll be right back to It’s Supernatural.
Sid: I’ve got Curry Blake in the Studio today. Curry Blake supernaturally was given a training manual that John G. Lake used in the first Quarter of the 20th Century in Spokane, Washington. And had such phenomenal results and everyone he trained had these phenomenal results. For those that are listening for the first time Curry Blake tell me about John G. Lake and his methods of training.
Curry: Well Dr. Lake first arrived in Spokane in early1914 he had just attended the formation of the Assemblies of God in Hot Springs. He decided to go to Spokane, Washington. When he was there he actually started preaching in a particular church. After about 6 months there he opened what he called Lake’s Divine Healing Institute. In that healing institute because he was having such success in getting people healed he knew that he could also teach it. He invited some people the needed healing predominantly at first. They came in and the people started getting healed in his classes not even having to lay hands on them. Most people…in fact he even put out a $500 bond once saying anyone could attend his classes for 30 days and not receive healing he would give them $500. Now technically at this point we haven’t made that same offer but we’re ready to its…we’re at that point that I would even like to go further and say that I would also say that anyone that wanted to learn this training that wanted to spend the time come and spend the time with us, come and walk with us, come and see what goes on and participate and be there and participate in it.
Sid: Tell me about the training that John G. Lake…
Curry: Well he started what they call the Healing Rooms there at the Agree Building and what they did they had rooms where someone would come in for prayer. They would come in and the people that were actually training technicians or the Divine Healing Technicians were a lot more people that had been healed and they get healed and then you become responsible for ministering healing ministering to others. It’s part of the “Whom much is given much is required.” Well he actually had them in the teaching and he would require that they attend the teaching for 30 days. That 30 day period would be a rotating every 1st of every month would start all over again. And he would train all of them all over again and they set through it for 30 days and were trained they were taught, they would ask questions you would answer the questions and would bring people in to be prayed for. He would pray for them and minister to them and demonstrate it and then he would let the people there minister to them.
Sid: Now would the people be instantly have the manifestation of healing or would some or would it take a period of time?
Curry: Oh there were lots that too periods of time as a matter of fact there was several instances in the records somewhere that you would have to attend 30 days to receive healing to guarantee it. And a lot of people would be gone and they would be healed on the 29th day.
Curry: And so that goes against the word of faith teaching of praying once. And I know that Wigglesworth said that if you pray twice for the same thing you’re praying the 2nd time in disbelief. Well that’s fine if it works but you pray until you get it.
Sid: Now Wigglesworth didn’t teach 1000s of people to do exactly what he could do he taught 1000s of people but they couldn’t do what he could do.
Curry: Right that’s exactly right.
Sid: Could the people do exactly what they were trained by John G. Lake exactly what he did?
Curry: I have in my files testimonies from people that were there and saw the healings. And they said that the greatest healings took place not under Dr. Lake’s hands but under Charles Westwood and Brother Fogwell and other ministers that were there. Dr. Lake at one time 16 ministers that trained that he taught and trained. And they had every bit as powerful healings as Dr. Lake did. Fogwell went to the bottom of a hospital at a morgue where they kept the bodies and there was a young baby there and took the baby and held her in his lap until she came alive. Well there was no record of Dr. Lake doing kind of thing there were dead raising in Dr. Lakes ministry but not like that. So the requirement was when they came in that they had to attend for 30 days and most of them would continue to attend after that for years and the longer they stayed…
Sid: Because it was revolving.
Curry: Right and he always taught the same thing over and over again but each time it would differ a little bit. And so the manual we have is what he taught at one particular period. Now it changed over the period of time as a matter of fact even the lecture titles we have are the same titles that you’ll see in different books but the actual book and the gist of the message would even be very similar but there are differences in it and tend to be more instruction than what this is.
Sid: Let me ask you a question give me some teaching nuggets that you gleaned from John G. Lake.
Curry: Okay first off I would say that one thing that Dr. Lake said was that “He can act himself into believing faster than he can believe himself into acting.” That is probably the number one primary nugget that I use and I walk in.
Sid: What does that mean “Act yourself into believing.”
Curry: Well we keep thinking that if we study enough, read enough, pray enough we will get full to a point where we will act without thinking about it it will just happen and “It will just hatch out” is what TL Osborn said. And that’s not true it’s not even been proven if that was true with all of the teaching and confessing and everything we’ve done over the last 20 years there would be no sick people left in America. But that’s not true the fact is you can do all of that and you can build up strong faith and do everything else but until you step out on your own free will and exercise your faith in God nothing will happen. But once you decide to step out just like you decided to get born again there is not enough devils in hell to stop it from happening. Again God will not override your will He wants you to use your will for His glory.
Sid: And we’ve been taught to be passive and let the paid professional do it.
Sid: And give them money to do but let the paid professional do it that’s not for me I’m a layman. In fact this whole idea of layman and professional clergy that’s all Greco-Roman culture not Biblical Jewish culture.
Curry: That’s right. Jesus did not make any distinction the only distinction He ever came to was in Ephesians when He talked about the 5 fold ministry. Every other thing He ever promised was to the believer.
Sid: Tell me more about what you learned for John G. Lake.
Curry: Well one of the things was that Dr. Lake operated under the Great Commission. He did not sit and wait for a special leading. He believed the Great Commission he would spend time in prayer and then he would go about and complete the Great Commission. He didn’t wait, he didn’t wait for any special leadings, special guidance now those things come. But until you’re doing the general will of God God’s not going to give you specific direction to do the specific will of God. You have to be involved and you have to be active in doing it. Some of the other things is that he got fed up with sickness and disease that’s probably one thing that mattered the most half of his family died because of sickness and disease. He was one of 16 children and 8 of them had already died by the time he came into a healing ministry and started watching what was going on. And at one point he said when his sister was dying his spirit would not let her go there was something inside of him that said “No enough is enough this is it.” It’s just like when you get born again you say “That’s it I’m given my life to Christ that is it no more sin I’m getting away from it you do the same thing with sickness and disease and you start to attack it. You can’t be passive, you can’t just say I’m through with it and I don’t want it to come on me. You have to attack it because it is an enemy and it has to be destroyed we don’t wait we seek it out we search out the enemy and we destroy his works. Jesus went about destroying the works of the enemy that’s what we do.
Sid: What do you really see as let’s call it the fallacy in word of faith teach there’s this great deal of truth I subscribe to it…
Sid: …but what do you think the fallacy is?
Curry: Well the majority of it is true and it gives us a good foundation and without it we couldn’t step to this next level we couldn’t do it. The 2 main fallacies and we deal with these a lot in the course a matter of fact the 2 main fallacies is the ideas is that a person has to have a Rhema word from God before they can do anything or they can be healed or anything else. That is just not true scripturally speaking I’m no Greek scholar but all of the scholars do say that there is literally no difference between the Greek word Rhema and the Greek word logos. If you look in the in James 1:22 it says “Be therefore doers of the word and not hears only thereby deceiving yourselves.” Now that word for word be therefore doers of the word if the Rhema doctrine was true then that word there should be Rhema because that’s what we’d have to do is the Rhema. But it’s the word Logos which is the written word the complete word the general concept the idea of what God had in mind. So what we’re to be doers of is not a Rhema we’re not to wait for Rhema we’re to be doers of the word. We’re going to be judged according how well we lived by the standard which is the word of God. Not by the standard of somebody’s arbitrary standard of “Well God never told me this I’m not responsible for it.”
Sid: What is the second fallacy?
Curry: The second fallacy is putting faith in our own faith. Our faith is not to be our own faith that’s why people get discouraged and they get beat down and they lose our faith is to be in God. And faith is not this big thing this monstrous thing it is just trusting God just like a friend you know. You know what He says is true so you act on it it’s not something that you have to build up. Put your faith in God not in your own faith because your faith will fail it is faith in God that works.
Sid: Thank you Curry our time is up this week.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. That’s the way it’s supposed to be. My guest says that God has shown him that more angels have been released on Planet Earth than ever before in history. Do you know why? Because we are about ready to see the greatest move of God’s spirit in the history of Planet Earth. He has spent the last ten years being trained by the Holy Spirit studying every scripture on angels and he’s here to help you mobilize your angels. Are you interested? I’m here with Dr. Tim Sheets and there are so many things I can talk about. But I heard about what Tim and his brother Dutch did. His father was part of the great healing revival. That was normal for him and his brother. And you literally would sweep cancers off the floor.
TIM: Yes. We were 11, 12 year olds and so Dad put us to work and he would have Wednesday night, would be healing night, and Sunday nights also. And our job was to when the healings lines came there would be people with cancer or internal problems, and we actually did clean cancer up off of the floors and also they would bring people from the hospital or nursing homes in ambulances. And a part of our job was to get the doors open and help push people to the altars, and so we saw great miracles.
SID: But we’re living in a generation that has not seen miracles. Our young people, they’re going, I like to use the Hebrew word, they’re going meshuga with what they’re learning in college. I want them to go meshuga over miracles.
TIM: The first of the year the Holy Spirit gave me this word and it was this: You will see an increasing rise in the healing of paralysis and it will be a sign that the paralysis in my body, his church body, is being healed. The church is being healed of the paralysis and the sign for that, he said, is going to be the healing of paralysis in his people. All over this world today, watching this program ,you talk about evangelism, wait until someone runs out of a wheelchair then you’ve got their attention. This coming generation needs to see the power of God. My generation needs to see the power. All of us need to see the power of God. This is a time to let it be activated by the Holy Spirit. Grab hold of this with your faith and say this is for me. I’m going to activate my faith and the paralysis is going to leave in the name of Jesus. I’m getting out of this wheelchair. I’m going to do things I couldn’t do before. That’s what we heard when I was growing up. They would always end with do what you couldn’t do before. Oral Roberts used to say it every time, “Now do what you couldn’t do before.” I believe hundreds and thousands of people watching today can do what they could not do before if they’ll just activate this promise. It’s a promise.
SID: I don’t know what it is, but this is what I’m seeing. I’m seeing you at home and I’m saying if you will just jump off out of your chair.
SID: That’s what I heard him say. Jump off and activate what God has done for you right now. I have to take you to 2003. You had a life-changing visitation of the Holy Spirit.
TIM: Oh, absolutely.
SID: What happened?
TIM: I was praying, Lord, give me an assignment. Where am I going? What am I supposed to be doing? And I had actually been praying about apostolic networks. And the Lord said to me, “What about my angel networks?” I had never thought of it. I don’t know why, Sid, but I had not ever thought about angels networking, but I thought, sure, they’re not just disorganized beings. God didn’t make angels to see if he could. They have a purpose. And he began to talk to me about that purpose. What is he, why is he reactivating angels, and why does he want me to study them the way that he was asking me to study them? And then he spoke to me, and the Holy Spirit said, “I am going to release and I’m going to supervise another campaign for King Jesus on this earth similar to Pentecost in Acts Chapter 2. Only this time I’m bringing far more of the angel armies.” It was spoken to me, I thought it was out loud. I don’t think it really was, but that’s how bold it was. And then a few days later I heard him, I was out praying again and I heard him say, “The greatest days in church history are not in its past. They are in its present and they are in its future.” I’m telling you a great move of God is beginning to unfold and if the Holy Spirit will pour out an anointing upon us that is even greater than Pentecost in Acts Chapter 2, and he adds to them more of the angel armies, why can’t we see a great harvest? A key to seeing a great harvest has got to be the releasing of miracles once again to get their attention. I believe that what a real evangelist would be, yes, he’s going to speak the Gospel, but he’s got to also demonstrate the Gospel. That’s why we got to see people getting out of the wheelchairs and running. I was, it was in my office a few years ago now, one of the first times angels spoke to me and that’s what angels, one of the things they do. They’re messengers so why wouldn’t we think we get messages and all over the Bible it’s the Angel of the Lord said, the Angel of the Lord spoke, etc. There are so many references. I was in my office on Saturday. I was studying for Sunday morning. I was the only one there and the atmosphere of the room changed. And that came over me, and I’m like, so I put the pen down and I sat there, and I said, “Lord, what? What?” And I started praying and I didn’t hear anything. So I got up from my desk and I walked out into the balcony. My office is behind a balcony and I said, and I kept praying. And as I was there the Angel of the Lord came to me and he said, “Tomorrow morning I want you, you are to declare God’s healing power is going to fall like rain on this congregation.”
SID: I’ll tell you what. I want him to hold that thought because this is absolutely amazing what he’s going to share. But I believe as he shares it that same rain is going to fall on you. We’ll be right back.