Sid: I know that I know that I know that I know… There is coming such a great awesome outpouring of God’s Spirit on planet earth. He’s going to have mercy because once more he’s going to shake this earth and those that are not on a firm foundation will fall. Now they’ll have good news for the church system in the world, and the good news is your churches are going to be packed, but the bad news is the harvest will be so great you won’t be able to contain it. And that’s why I am so excited about a new wineskin for a new outpouring of God’s Spirit and it’s… I have a manual in my hands something I have wanted desperately because of all the calls I get from people throughout the world that want to start One New Man Congregations. This is not the One New Man Congregation, but it is a vessel that will be able to contain the glory of God that is about ready to be poured out so that you can read my book “The Race to Save the World” and “Mega Shift” which tells you how to set up an open congregation; how to set up a home church. I mean this fellow Jim Rutz has spent 40 years not just researching on how it’s affected throughout the world, but he’s had hands on experience. And I have two people that started, the Holy Spirit started with them just like Jim. They’d never heard of Jim today they’re spokesman for Jim’s Organization Mega-Shift Ministries, Tim and Katie Mather. Tim you told me you have quite a heritage goes all the way back to a man I’ve heard about that was in the Salem witch trials Cotton Mather. Now just to clarify the record what side of the fence was he on in the Salem witch trials?
Tim: He was on the good side. He was one of the ones that put a stop to it in the end.
Sid: So how many generations of pastors in your family?
Tim: In amongst the 16 generations there were many many of the generations were pastors as it comes down to me.
Sid: Tell us a bit about your background so you became a pastor because your dad was a pastor and what is it like to be a pastor of a church, what is it really like. I mean under the current system that’s going on that’s all your family knew that’s all you knew. What was it like for you?
Tim: It’s very simply impossibility because there’s so many demands there are so many pulls on your life; so many things that you have to do if you’re in a smaller church you’re the janitor, and you’re the CEO, and your everything in between. It’s an impossible job.
Sid: So Katie as the pastors wife of this impossible job what did you see going on in your husband’s life while he was trying to multitask on too many tasks?
Katie: Well I saw him being pulled from many directions trying to be all things to all people, but not even really fulfilling what he felt was his true purpose, his true calling in ministry that was in his heart.
Sid: Why did you stay in the pastorate Tim?
Tim: Because I felt I had a call from God to preach the good news.
Sid: Were there times when you wanted to just walk away from it?
Tim: I had a colleague during a pretty long stretch of my ministry who said he had a resignation letter in his desk with no date on it and he would bring it out every Monday morning.
Tim: Dust it off and ask the Lord can I resign this week? It wasn’t quite that bad I don’t want to paint that kind of picture, but it was an impossibility. I knew the whole time that there was something wrong, that there as something missing from what God had called us to do.
Sid: What would you say was the highlight of your week as a pastor?
Tim: The highlight of the week is the time when we get to preach, that’s what I live for, I used to say that I lived 23 hours or six days 23 hours a week to get to do that 1 hour a week that I loved to do and that was to preach the Word of God.
Sid: So Tim when did you realize that the system was not as affective it was the best we had but it wasn’t as affective as it should have been?
Tim: Well, it’s kind of been an underlying thought looking back in my entire life I knew something was wrong. And talking with other pastors when there are no lay people around we would talk a lot about that over the years about it’s something missing, something’s out of place we’re missing it somewhere. And the question, the standard question is “Well, is this all there is, is this the real thing?” So it came to the forefront in 1992 and I was fasting and praying and I felt the Lord say to me “Preaching in its present form is not what I want, it’s not what I designed it to be.” Well, that was my entire life!
Sid: Well, you shocked by that Word?
Tim: I was shocked well I knew that….
Sid: Did you rebuke that word and think that it wasn’t the Lord?
Tim: I knew it wasn’t me so in discerning whether it’s the Lord speaking I knew it wasn’t me and I couldn’t figure out why the enemy would say to such a thing to me. And so when I began to just listen to what He had to say it began to open my eyes to we have to go into another direction to do the will of God on this planet, to pull off what He said in the Bible that’s going to happen.
Sid: So you didn’t have anything more than this word from God and this intuitive hunch that there’s got to be something more. So what do you do with this? Well your dad’s an old time preacher, did you go to him with this idea?
Tim: We went to him he was at that time preaching a six month series of messages called “Servants of Righteousness” which many people would call every member of ministry that were all called to do the work of the ministry. And I said “Do you really believe what you’re preaching?” And he said “Yes.” And so we said “Well, let’s see what the Lord has, let’s just go off on this adventure and see what He has for us not knowing where we were going. We left the country and we went in a sense to another country to find out this new thing.
Sid: Well, tell me about it.
Tim: Well the process was I was the coach I was the trainer in this church and so we began to train the people to do ministry, to pray for one another, to share, to evangelize, to go to the hospitals and minister to the sick. Every kind of gifting just finding out what it was and pulling it out.
Sid: Your job was to mobilize the body.
Tim: Right it’s to put them, get them in gear and so it was about an 18 month process. At the end of it what we were going to do was train house church leaders and ultimately we broke-up a church of about 180 people we broke it up into home groups.
Sid: And how did this work?
Tim: Well, it worked great in the beginning because we didn’t have a manual we didn’t have any other way to figure out what was going on we were listening to the Holy Spirit and trying to interpret what He was saying in this new place. And it was very difficult and so in the middle of our training process in the last six months of that time we found Jim Rutz’s first book somebody brought it to me and said “Hey this is a book that talks about what you’re doing it’s called “The Open Church” printed in 1992. So we got that and finally we were really thrilled because we weren’t the only ones out here in this place.
Sid: It’s sort of like as I propagate people understanding the one new man and I find out all over the world the Holy Spirit is speaking this thought to people I’m not a lone voice in the wilderness, so I understand what you’re saying, go ahead.
Tim: That’s why He develops….that’s why it’s so important to develop those kind of relationships to keep you in balance and God says the same thing over the entire planet and everybody’s hearing that. So we then used that book and trained our people and went to work and the presence of God was powerful and we called them life groups at the time. We trained them we sent them out; people were getting born again there were healings, there were people finding emotional and relational healing. People developing relationship in a new way and it was just a huge adventure.
Sid: The question that I have is what is the difference between what you’re doing today and what you used to do under the former system?
Katie: Well I think the big difference that we really saw in the people is that for so many years they had been the lay people in the church and there was a limitation to what they could do within the structured church as far as Sunday School Teachers, Music Ministry of different sorts, church positions. But what they began experiencing was actually ministering truth and life into people’s lives on a regular basis in a very real way and for themselves experiencing feeding people and bringing life transformation. And that was a very exciting part and we were able to equip them to minister in a very real and practical way so that it actually increased the ministry of the church.
Sid: You know every pastor heart is “How can I mobilize my people, how can I take this from spectators sport to everyone a worker?” But Tim what’s the difference between a good church that has home groups or cell groups they’re mobilizing people they’re doing these good things in a home church?
Tim: The answer to the question is one word and that’s control.
Sid: Tell you what, we’re out of time….
Sid: That ancient Jewish anointing and the Christian anointing have co-mingled to form the true body of Messiah. The glory of God is about ready to be released because of this explosion of the merger of the Jew and the Christian and we’re about ready to welcome in the King. But between now and then there are multitudes of people that must hear the good news. And right here in the United States of America we have a people group that have been sheltered. A picket fence has been put around us by a religious system called Rabbinical Judaism.
Now many people say the picket fence has been put around by the rabbis to stop Jewish people from breaking the laws of Torah. And that is true but there is a greater demonic truth connected with it. That picket fence that has been put around my Jewish people, and I saw my Jewish people because both of my parents are Jewish and I come from a traditional Jewish background to prevent us from thinking for ourselves.
When I was 29 years of age I went through an early midlife crisis. But I want to take you back to a period of time when I was a young boy maybe about 8 years of age. My parents used to go out late at night gambling playing poker and I was home alone. And I remember I had the strangest conversation with myself. Today I know it wasn’t with myself; but back then it was with myself. And the conversation went something like this, a question popped into my head. “What happens when you die?” And I remember thinking because you see in Judaism we believe in life after death but I had never had this discussed. So I thought “When you die you cease to exist.” So now as a little child, remember I’m a little fearful because I’m home alone it’s dark; it’s late and I imagine in my mind “What would it be like if I ceased to exist.” I don’t know if you’ve ever had that little mind trip but I sure had that and the more I thought about it the more objectionable it became. So I did the only intelligent thing I could do; I blocked it from my mind until many years later.
I remember I blinked my eyes a few times and I graduated from high school, then I blinked my eyes a few more times and I graduated from American University in Washington DC. Then I blinked my eyes a few more times and I was married; I blinked my eyes a few more times and I had a beautiful daughter. I blinked my eyes a few more times and I had a wonderful career with Merrill Lynch as an account executive. I blinked my eyes a few more times and remember my goal in life… I say remember I haven’t told you yet how could you remember. My goal in life was to be a millionaire by age 30; here I am age 29 and I will be a millionaire if I just stay with Merrill Lynch and do my job a multi-millionaire. But my whole goal in life was to be a millionaire; why? Because I was discipled by a one-eyed monster called television. And television told me if I had money I could be happy; I could buy things to make myself happy. I found out that’s a lie. You see you cannot be happy with all the money in the world if you have an inoperable tumor of the brain and you’re dying. You cannot be happy if your children are out selling their bodies in prostitution or caught up into drugs. You cannot be happy if your wife has just run off with your business partner.
No, the most important things in life money cannot buy. But I thought money would buy me happiness so by age 29 I did something I’m not proud of. I walked away from my wife; I walked away from my daughter; I walked away from my job and I went searching for happiness. I didn’t know what that search was for. I mean what would make me happy; I always thought money would make me happy. I thought “Well, I got married young maybe the social scene would make me happy.” So I started going to single bars. You know I came up with a conclusion really quick the loneliest people on the face of this earth are in single’s bars. Take a look at those places not at night with the sparkling lights but in the morning and look how filthy that place is; now you’re seeing reality.
I thought well, maybe I’ll go in business for myself, so I started a small brokerage firm selling insurance and I hired a salesman. And this salesman came in to see me in my office one day and he said “Sid I had a friend that had no psychic ability whatsoever but he took a course, a meditation course, a mind course, and now he knows things that he never was told. And I thought to myself “Wow, if I can break into that realm then I can make the money I want. I can find out what stocks to buy and then I’d have the money and then I’d be happy.” I’m a real logical type of person; of course my logic was based on the tip of the iceberg I didn’t know what was going on underneath the surface. So I take this course and at the end of the week they had an acid test and if you can’t pass the test you don’t have to pay any money. And I thought the course was a flimflam I’m sorry I’m in it but I want to get my money back so I stay for this entire course. And what they taught me to do is through meditation lower my brain waves, almost like in a hypnotic sleep, and when you’re at your most dull passive point invite a friend; they call it a counselor into your head who will give you this information that you had no other way of knowing.
And so I did this imaginary friend and I thought this whole thing was a phony baloney. I wanted my money back so I stayed until the end of the class and they gave me the acid test. They gave me the name of a woman that I’d never heard of and my partner said to me “Okay, this is her name what’s wrong with her physically?” And before I can even say “I don’t know” I see an image before me with an X over one of her breast and I say “Could she have cancer of the left breast?” And they looked at me and they said “That’s exactly what she had.” And I thought “This power is phenomenal; now I can make my money and can be a happy person.”
What I didn’t know was that this power was not a power that I was using at will. It was an intelligent being that was out to occupy every fiber of my being and destroy me after it’s finished using me. Because I found this power that I had tapped into started growing. It got to a point that I would just think a thought and things would happen. For instance, I said “I need a new office.” And right after I think this thought a man that I knew very casually walked into my office and said “Sid if you ever want to expand your operation and go into business for yourself.” I was working for another company even though I was an independent agent. “But go into business for yourself I’ll give you a free secretary; I’ll give you free rent; I’ll give you free telephone.” I thought “Oh, this power is phenomenal.” What I didn’t know was this man was involved with the power. This power was the opposite of the power that I was involved in. He was one of these born again Christians. So I took up his offer, I went into his place and he was weird; his partner had just returned from Israel. Get this he’s Gentile and he loves the Jewish people so much that he went there for a year and worked. You know how much money he got for it? Nothing, I mean I always thought that there was something wrong with Gentiles but now I knew that they were mashuga, that’s a Hebrew word crazy. And so not only that he’s reading his Bible all the time rather than doing business. What kind of businessman was this? And then they had Bible studies. And I used to wreck them, I thought I was smart, I was stupid.
Then one day he returned from Israel one year the one I thought was mashuga, real crazy. He walks into my office and he says “Sid, do you know according to the Jewish scriptures you are an abomination to God? It is hard for me to stop from laughing but I said “What do you know about the Jewish scriptures?” I’m Jewish, I was Bar Mitzvah!” He said “Well, turn to the Torah Deuteronomy the 18th chapter. And I turned to it and he said, “Read that.” And I started to reading in the 9th verse “When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God hath giveth thee thou shalt learn not to do after the abominations of those nations.” And I said “Well, I’m not doing after those abominations.” Keep reading. “There shall not be found among you anyone that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire.” What about abortion. “Or who useth divination.” That’s fortune telling “Or an observer of the times” that’s astrology. “Or an enchanter” someone who puts hexes on people and meditates. “Or a witch” and I knew what that one was, “Or a consulter of mediums, or a wizard or a necromancer.” That’s someone that does séances or communicates with the dead. God says for all that do these things are an abomination. Listen even these New Age meditation courses that I was taking they were loaded with priests and nuns. I’ll tell you what we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: I have watched this woman on television for many years and I know that she’s red hot for the Messiah. Her name is Karen Wheaton and perhaps you don’t know a whole lot about her although you’ve heard her music. Karen from what I understand you owe quite a debt of gratitude to the inspiration your mother gave you. Tell me a bit about your mom.
Karen: Oh thank you Sid for one thing it’s wonderful to join you on your program today; and I’d love to tell you about my mother. She has been the greatest influence in my life and continues to be. She’s a woman of God, her mother was also filled with the Holy Spirit as with her mother and her mother. So I come from a heritage of strong women that were sold out fully to the things of the Lord and walking it with Him. My mother as a young child encountered the miraculous in her life.
Sid: Tell me one story you remember about your mom in the miraculous.
Karen: This is a simple story. I remember my mother telling me this my whole life. When mother was 6 years she wanted a set of jacks. Now if you remember Sid in the ’40s little girls loved to play with jacks, but in that time because of the war and different things metal jacks were very hard to come by. As a 6 year old little girl my mother asked the Lord to give her a set of jacks. And she didn’t tell anybody, she was on the school bus the next day and sitting on the back of the school bus a young girl about 12 years old gets up walks to the back of the bus hands my mother a little bag and in that bag was a set of metal jacks. Now I know to some people they wouldn’t think that much about that but you know what as a 6 year old little girl it taught my mother that when you ask God something in faith He will answer your prayers. Last week I was praying now and my mother is close to 80, I’m 52 years old. I found myself in prayer last week saying “God thank you for the jacks that you gave my mother because it put faith in her as a little girl that you answered prayer which now has put faith in me that you can move a mountain.
Sid: I have to tell you something. When God does the least thing for me I am so thrilled over this, so I understand that story. Okay your 8 years old you become a believer but you had quite an experience with the Holy Spirit at 8; tell me about that.
Karen: I was 8 years old, I was standing in the Church of God of Prophecy in Hamilton, Alabama where I was raised it was a June summer night. My mother and my grandmother I had seen them filled with the Holy Spirit all of my life and moving in the gifts of the Spirit, healing the sick, ministering to people. I wanted what they had, I was so hungry for the Holy Spirit I was standing in the altar, I can remember it like it happened last night. In fact Sid I still have the dress that I had on that night hanging in my bedroom door right now as I speak.
Sid: I also think you have that same anointing on your voice right now as your telling me that story of what happened when you were eight; go ahead
Karen: Well, He’s the same Holy Spirit right now to me as He was those years ago. Standing in that altar with both hands raised high as I could get them. I had prayed and sought Him until I honestly was soaked with sweat I had tears rolling down my face saying “Oh God fill me with the Holy Spirit, fill me with the Holy Spirit.” I had people praying for me all around me that night as old Pentecostal woman used to do. And all I can tell you Jesus said “Out of our belly would flow a river of living water.” I can remember the moment He came into me in an 8 year old little girl’s body. Out of my belly would flow this water out of my mouth, I began to speak in another language, the language of the Holy Spirit. And He filled me with power and I found that it’s so wonderful. He does not; to children He does not give a junior Holy Ghost, it’s the same Spirit that filled my mother and grandmother and great-grandmother. In fact, He’s the same Spirit that raised Christ Jesus from the dead…
Sid: You know people flip that statement but it is beyond comprehension I hope you heard what Karen Wheaton just said. The same Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead. I mean you’re talking about He took every sin that you’ve ever committed, He took every sickness that has ever tried to come upon you. That same Holy Spirit that was so powerful to raise Him from the dead was in Karen and in you. Karen shortly thereafter you heard the audible voice of God what did He tell you?
Karen: I was walking in the trees behind my house at my grandparents’ home actually, and all I can tell you Sid is that young girl having just received the Holy Spirit I fell in love with Jesus, I fell in love with the presence of God. And it was in those trees, I was walking through there one afternoon in the woods just behind the house and I just sensed that undeniable presence. I heard His voice very simply just simply tell me I was called to preach the gospel. And I knew that I had encountered the true presence of God and the true voice of God.
Sid: And at 11, and I mean now you’re really an old woman, at 11 you had an opportunity to speak at church and the Holy Spirit showed up describe what occurred.
Karen: I was 11 years old when I was singing; do you remember the old song Sid that they used to sing “Jesus, there’s just something about that Name.”
Sid: Yeah, I love it.
Karen: Singing that song and they had given me a recitation for the middle of the song that I was to speak. All I can tell you is while I was speaking I sensed something, someone besides me coming through me and flowing through me. He was a power it was a presence, it was an unction, it was an anointing, I didn’t understand it then to understand that it was an anointing all I knew was I felt an empowerment of the Holy Spirit using the words that were coming out of the voice and the mouth of a little girl. Yet they were having a deep impact on the adults that were hearing them. I didn’t know what it was I just knew whatever this is, and whoever this is, I want Him every time I sing, every time I speak. And I know now Him to be the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
Sid: Tell me about the song “I Have to Believe.”
Karen: I love the message of this song because through the years of walking in faith and standing on the word of God I’ve learned that in every circumstance that we face, and we all face those times of difficulty and impossibility or places of deep hurt or betrayal. Where do you go except to the Lord and you seek Him until you get a word. Now counseling is good, going to other people and talking about these things that you’re facing are…it’s a good thing to do that. But people are limited in what they can do; you seek God until you get a word from God. Once you get a word from God you stand on that word unmoved and believe that promise will come to pass.
Sid: And I believe that as they listen to you sing this right now that they’re going to…that some are going to hear a word; others where the word has died it’s going to come back and their going to cling to it until it manifests. “I have to Believe”
Karen: “I have to Believe” worship excerpt.
Sid: That was Karen Wheaton singing “I Have to Believe,” Now when people hear her music lives are radically changed. Different Psalmists have different anointing’s I believe God has put in an anointing on Karen to push you to passionately worship God. And I also believe that when you listen to her music the same thing that’s happening to me is going to happen to you you’re going to want to pray in tongues and worship and praise God. I’m using her music now to pray in tongues; I did it for a couple of hours the other day.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be so passionate for the Messiah that your life will make a difference. Now I have a young man that’s passionate for the Messiah his name is Shawn Bolz I’m speaking to him at his home in Foley, Alabama he’s with White Dove Ministries. And through a series of coincidences, and I don’t believe they were coincidences I got a hold of his book about a week ago and the title is… and I have to tell you Shawn I’m kind of turned-off not on prosperity but the motive behind a lot of prosperity teaching that goes on. And so when I saw the title my first thought was I’m really not interested in this book and the books only a month old it’s called “Key’s to Heaven’s Economy.” And then I read the subtitle which says “An angelic Visitation from the Minister of Finance.” And I have to tell you what you teach in your book about money and this visitation that you had, and what is about ready to happen on planet earth is what the Holy Spirit has been showing me and it’s so refreshing to have what I call a good… a godly slant on prosperity as opposed to what I see.
Shawn: Wow, I appreciate that I know that the book totally challenged me to write it because I’m not a wealthy man; I’m not someone that’s dealt with lots of finances in the past. So I was shocked when the angel came to me to deal with this kind of subject.
Sid: So why did angel, who identified himself as the Minister of Finance, choose you?
Shawn: I think it had to do with the story in the book which is about my brother and I.
Sid: Why don’t you share that now?
Shawn: Well, my brother died before I was born he was about 4 years old and he was one that brought my whole family to the Lord right before he died. He talked about Jesus and God all the time, my parents weren’t saved and they didn’t know how this little boy had such an encounter with God that he talked about Him all the time. And they were not practicing Catholics, but they came more from a Catholic tradition. So when he died the night he died they had an angelic visitation and they talked to their priest about it and he told them “He told them that they needed to know Jesus, they needed to understand who Jesus was,” and he lead them through a salvation prayer. And so my brother became in some ways and in a different way a martyr for our whole family. So later on as we started on our journey as a family my parents really wanted to raise my sisters and I for ministries for the purposes of the Lord. And so later, 2001, I was on a journey with God I call them journeys where I’m going places as I go on ministry trips sometimes I’ve gone somewhere just because God sends me. I went to a place called Lancaster, California and I heard the Lord speak to me in my room “You have to go to Lancaster, California.” And when I heard that I didn’t know why, it wasn’t a ministry trip, I didn’t know why I was going.
Sid: Had you ever been to Lancaster before?
Shawn: Well, when I was fifteen I actually went to a concert there and so that was the only time; it was a Christian concert and I’d never been back and I didn’t know anybody there it was a knew land for me. But a friend of mine was going to go and do a conference there she’s a minister and so she had asked it I wanted to go. After this I told her about the experience, and she said “Well why don’t you go to this conference maybe God’s going to visit you at my conference.” Which was a beautiful statement and I had a great time at the conference but nothing happen as far as why I thought I was supposed to go there. On my way on that trip I had called my mom and or she had actually called me and she asked “Shawn where are you going this weekend I heard you’re going on a trip, where is it?” And I said “Well I’m going to Lancaster, California because I heard the Lord say “Go get an inheritance from Lancaster.” And she started to cry because she was going up to the Northwest which was another story but she said “Shawn your brother was born in Lancaster, California.” And I never knew that because we’re a military family we hadn’t talked much about his death, we hadn’t talked much about where he was born. We talked a lot about him, but some of the details because it was before I was born.
Sid: Now he died at age 4 from leukemia but go ahead.
Shawn: Yeah and so I just didn’t know much about him and so as far as circumstances and so when I was going back out there to the West Coast from Kansas City I thought, “God what are you doing sending me for an inheritance and how is it linked into my brother’s life who was born there?” And I felt like He was showing me Isaiah 49 verse 8 it says “He’s going to raise us up to reassign desolate inheritances or inheritances that no longer are being picked up or held or championed by anybody.” And so I felt like there was something that God had designed my brother just like He has a plan for all of our lives He had designed a plan for my brother’s life that was cut short by the leukemia and cancer that he had and that God was asking me to go and pick up an inheritance that my brother had walked in and would have fulfilled in his lifetime if he had lived his whole life out. So I went back there under that premise. So when I got there I don’t think, I don’t know that I would have had the angelic visitation if it was about just my calling and the purpose God had invited me into but I know that he was expanding me and asking me to have even more than I had before. I invited me to enter into my brother’s destiny inheritance so that he could still inheritance so that he could still inherit in Heaven from Heaven’s point of view. And so I went out to Lancaster, California and the conference was great but nothing dramatic happened for me it was a good time. And then I went and stay with these people I had met at the conference we just had a Divine connection their last names were the Worthington’s, which I love that name because it was a little hint from God’s heart about what was about to happen about the worthiness of God. I went to their house, woke up one morning all of a sudden as I wake up in the morning I’m not a morning person when I wake up the light was shining in my eyes. And I was facing the windows and they didn’t have window curtains or treatments and so I was facing the windows and the sun was rising in my eyes so I turned around to look the other way and the sun was shining through mirrors that were on the other side of the wall and so I looked down to clear my eyes of the sunlight because it was so bright. And there was a man standing at the foot of my bed and it completely terrified me because I didn’t know these people very well and I didn’t know if some man had come into my room. But then I realized that this man did not look normal; he didn’t look like a…he had some qualities, some supernatural other worldly quality to him which then scared me even more. I was laying there in a very vulnerable position in bed you know looking at this man and a voice came into the room and said “Welcome the Minister of the Finance” into the Kingdom.” And this man was dressed like all I can say is a like a brown burlap it looked like almost like a potato sack robe. But underneath it was hiding something of just the greatness of the authority he carried, there was something underneath that I couldn’t totally see but you could kind of make out of just garments I’ve never seen on earth before.
Sid: What did you feel while this was going on?
Shawn: First of all I felt like “Why in the world was he in my room a minister of the finances of the Kingdom.” Because the only term for the Minister of Finance that I ever heard is a Minister of Finance of America, or a Minister of Kenya, or you know a different country I never heard of an angelic being called the Minister of Finance. I was looking through scriptures saying “What does this mean and who is this and what is this experience.” And so I was immediately like my mind was racing and I had very clear thoughts, but questions with no answers, so I knew I would have to walk out the experience and see why he had come. So he came over to me; he didn’t talk at first, he came over to me and he stood next to me and he began to pull out a number of keys. He had keys in this burlap robe that he was wearing that had pockets and he put them on my chest and he started pulling out every kind of key that you could image there was car keys, and boat keys and house keys and building keys and card keys and new kinds of keys that I think are electronic that we’re going to walk into as a country. And keys I’ve never seen before and then big keys and small keys and he put them all on my chest so it was very weighty and I could feel them in the natural I could feel the weight of them I could feel the coolness of some of them. And he pushed them into me and said he was imparting keys for resources, I knew that I was representing something. I’m not necessarily saying that I will have all these thousands of keys in my life time but because there was several hundred if not a thousand keys. He was pushing them into me and I started to take on an impartation of unlocking of resources that were going to come for the sake of Jesus to get His full inheritance, His full reward. So I began to understand that this encounter was about Jesus getting everything that is His.
Sid: Now the thing that excites me is there’s going to be a mega shift, and most people realize this in the church; we think of the separation of clergy and layman. But what he showed you was there’s going to be this dramatic shift into the world of business and art and finance; explain that.
Shawn: I think that was one of the main points of the whole encounter is that these keys belonged to people who were going to pursue their calling, their destiny in the entertainment industry and in the political arena and in education and in all those different arenas, business and like you said arts. All of these different things were the keys belong to so the keys were to buildings that were like a studio. I saw a studio in California that’s one of the largest studios in California that I’ve never seen with my natural eyes. I saw it in the Spirit, we were hovering over it and that’s part of later on in the story. I saw this studio being unlocked, the keys being giving to either purchase or else to use a good portion of it to a Christian Community of people who are called to make movies in the Hollywood industry that would reflect the glory of God. And what I loved about this is right before the Passion and Narnia, and now we’re starting to see an unlocking of resources and of anointing and of impartation from God’s heart to unlock projects that are open people’s hearts toward redemption message. And so I feel like I saw these keys being released to the person who doesn’t necessarily feel called to the institution of the Church but they feel called to the Kingdom. And so you have…we’ve spent a lot of time ministering to ministers and ministering to people who have a church calling. All of a sudden this Minister of Finances showing me the resources are being provided that people could go out and use those resources to touch every dark place that Jesus could get the fullness of His reward.
Sid: Now we’ll get into this a little later on but the thing that’s so excited me was this mega-shift that is going to be occurring. We were always taught someone has a ministry of business to make money to give it to people like us to do ministry who are called for up front ministry. But you see the ministry actually being what they’re doing.
Shawn: Absolutely, absolutely I think that people are about to understand that the very, if you look at the scriptures in Joel that the very plowshare or the very hoe or whatever they’re using as a garden tool they’re using, that very thing that they are using to work their fields and to just get their resource and finances for their own life God’s going to say “Turn your plowshares into swords, beat your pruning hooks into spears it’s time for war; it’s time for My purpose.” He’s about to come to the person who feels like they’re in a common role like a housewife or the person who feels like they’re in a common role…
Sid: Ah, I tell you we’re out of time will pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: I have a guest that I believe prophetically is as much a One New Man as I’ve been proclaiming for the last few years. His name is Renny McLean; I caught up with him in a hotel room in Chicago, Illinois, but he’s based in Dallas, Texas. Renny is a real One New Man. And I say that because his mother is Jewish and his father is Jamaican and after all Paul said “Jesus came to break down the middle wall of separation between Jew and Gentile.” But Renny you really are a One New Man!
Renny: (Laughing) I’ve never heard it put that way before but yes that’s true I am.
Sid: And the thing Mishpochah that intrigues me about Renny is he had from a very young age encounters with the Lord; encounters with the invisible world. And he has an insight into something that I’ve been praying for and that I taste but I have not walked into the degree that I want to. And I can tell you from a selfish personal viewpoint I’ve been looking forward to this interview with Renny because he has an understanding of the invisible world that we must. And not just Renny and not just me but you, all of us, that are and you wouldn’t be listening to me if you were not pushing for greater intimacy with God. I’ve been labeling this just because I didn’t have another label but maybe it’s the right one knowing, K-N-O-W-I-N-G, faith; where you know things that are going …that have already happened as a matter of fact because there’s no time in eternity and you just act like an actor on a stage. You hear from God what has already happened in eternity and you just act it out and there isn’t any guess work you don’t have say “Are you healed?” You’ve already seen it happen in the spirit realm. You see the type of faith you would be walking in; that is a higher level than what most people call faith. And Renny has experienced it he’s walked in it. As a matter of fact just to whet their appetite tell me about those deaf people Renny.
Renny: Oh, my goodness you mean, oh you mean the ones that had no ear drums. Yeah well let me give you something, let me explain the whole thing. It was in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; it was 60 that was healed in one night but the miracle of it half of them had no ear drums and they were growing eardrums as they were coming down to testify. So God does those things that’s no question.
Sid: Why wasn’t I there with my television crew Renny?
Renny: I wish you were there Sid. (Laughing)
Sid: I wish that there were a few doctors there too! (Laughing)
Renny: I’m telling you I really do wish they were I mean we’ve had doctors in our meetings sit down and say “If we didn’t believe in God we believe in God now;” we’ve had doctors say it.
Sid: Now of course we hear that accent you were born in England.
Renny: Yes Sir I was born in London, England where the Queen lives God bless her.
Sid: My goodness, what a combination Jamaican, Jewish, and British.
Renny: (Laughing) Yeah, it’s scary.
Sid: My goodness but let the Mishpochah understand a little bit about you. I’m going to take you back to age 7 tell us what happened.
Renny: When I was 7 years of age I had an encounter with Yeshua; I was praying like most children would pray. I was raised in a very unusual household in that my mother had already had an experience with Yeshua; she too had had a supernatural experience and was saved actually before I was physically born.
Sid: I’m a curious type guy could you just very briefly tell me what happened to your Jewish mom.
Renny: Oh yes, my mother met the Lord through visions; she met the Lord through the visions. I’ll tell you what’s so interesting I’ll never forget one day somebody was witnessing to her who was not born again who was not of the House of Israel and she was witnessing to my mother and they said to her “You know it’s the Lord that’s really looked after you all of these years and blessed your life and made the crooked path straight for you.” And then in the middle of the lady witnessing to my mother my mother saw Jesus literally physically appear in the room. And when He appeared my mother fell to her knees and she cried out His Name. You have to remember my Mother was raised in a Jewish household and she cried out His Name and she got saved; born again literally and filled with the Spirit the same moment in time. And so my family in general my family are born again they all had; those who were Jews on my mother’s side they all had super-natural encounters with Yeshua.
Sid: So it’s not an accident when the scriptures say “The Jew requires a sign.”
Renny: Oh, 100% because I can tell you they didn’t believe; I mean Sid I know that you know that this as well or better than anyone I know would know this. Most of us who are Jews if the truth be told we believe in a historical God; but as far as the present movings and manifestations of the Living God now that’s almost hard to grasp. I mean it makes a lot of sense why it’s hard to grasp because you really have to have a revelation of faith.
Sid: You know Renny here’s the sad thing; this is not true for all Orthodox Jews but I went to a traditional Jewish Synagogue for many years and many many of the influential Jews in the synagogue from the pulpit area on down were just really agnostics at best; they had a love for the tradition. A love for the culture, a love for being Jewish, a love for the fellowship of other Jews but knowing God was and believing the scriptures are really from God they considered almost a fantasy.
Renny: Oh, 100% that’s actually you summed it up with real accuracy because that’s been my personal experience. So when my family had basic all of my family that born again they all had encounters with the Lord; so I guess what happened to me wasn’t strange to them. What happened to me was in the middle of praying I was about to go to my bed and then when I went into my bedroom to go to bed all of a sudden the supernatural light of God’s glory came in my room. Out of the light the face of the man Christ Jesus appeared; I saw his whole body torso stand before me. He stood before me and looked about 6′ tall and beside Him were two angelic beings, and nothing but love came out of His eyes. And He looked to me and said “Be not afraid, be not afraid.” He said to me “I’m here to reveal Myself to you.” And when the Lord began to reveal Himself to me He said “I’m going to show you who you are; I’m going to show You what I’m going to use you to do.” And as soon as He said that the four walls in my room fell out and I was not in my bed I was standing before the throne of God. The Lord said to me “I want you to watch and I want you to see.” And the Lord He just spoke and He said “I’m going to send you to the world.” And when He said “The world” it was in a booming voice and it shook every fiber of my being. This voiceprint was in my spirit when He spoke it and it was like it went whoosh. When He spoke the world a globe came straight out of Him and stood before Him. And He said “You will go to the world,” and then He said to me “I want you to watch.” And it was like the Lord flung stars over the nations I was to go to; and He said to me “Take these as signs.” He said “Every place I go I will lead you” and He said “I will guide you.” And He said “You will bring the manifest My name to the nations with signs, wonders and miracles and you will bring the revelation of My faith and My glory to your generation.” That was now 37 years ago.
Sid: But Renny how does a 7 year old handle that type of a visitation?”
Renny: Well with all, because I can remember even as you’re saying it I can feel it like it’s going to happen again. What happened to me Sid was this, when you’re a child and you read the Bible and you’ve not had life’s experiences and you’ve not had certain hardships it’s very easy for you to be naive. People would say naive but I would honestly say “Innocent” because a child really and truly is innocent. And I think that’s why Yeshua used the expression childlike faith because a child when it comes to believe incredible things could easily grasp that more than an adult. And I’d have to honestly say I did not have any pre-tradition; I didn’t have enough tradition in me to make me question what I experienced because what I encountered the Lord and what He really came and manifested Himself to me my life was changed forever.
Sid: Would you say that the points you’re just making which are so important; I’m asked all the time “Sid why do I hear about these people in Africa and in Russia and in India that they have such miracles and they’re the same people in the US and they don’t have the miracles. It’s in the US we are so cerebral and we have lost our innocence.
Renny: Oh is that is so prophetic that’s true because I’ll tell you something Sid you know what God just spoke to me as you just said it to me; I’ll tell you what He just said to me because in the west we eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We eat from the tree of reason; our own reason. The Bible says “Lean not to your own understanding.” And it’s in the western world there is two things that I would say why we have this over here. Number one I’d say it’s because of the first reason I would say this “In Africa and in Asia they already believe in the spirit realm so you don’t have to convince them about the spirit realm they already believe in it.” But just when we go there and we preach Jesus to them and they see the real thing they believe it. But over in the western world we do not believe in the spirit realm, it’s played about with; people just toy around with it but as far as step into it the church really doesn’t step into it.
Sid: Renny hold that thought.