Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Doug Jones; he’s been an instructor at Rhema Bible School for over 20 years. He has spent 9 years heading up their Healing School. He’s got insights into healing in the last few days we’ve been talking about a dimension that very few in what are called word of faith teaching have opened themselves up to. And that’s yielding to the Spirit of God that may make no sense; may go against everything that you’ve ever thought but would be the key to open yourself for a healing. But Doug there’s another side; let’s talk about that today; the faith side.
Doug: Yes, there is the faith side. There is Holy Spirit side and we need to be sensitive to the Spirit of God as we maneuver our way to eradicate the diseases out of our bodies. Sid I want to say this too before we go on to this faith side issue. Spirit of God can also lead you about medical physicians. We’ve actually had in our family where my wife just something wasn’t right about a particular physician and we actually switched doctors as a result of it. And we come to find out that that was a Spirit of God leading her and guiding her. And so we encourage people to seek medical assistance and to seek physicians helps. But we still need to be lead by the Spirit of God and lead also while we’re hearing the word of God that maybe the Spirit of God can tweak some of our beliefs so that we’re in proper position. But there is another side that we need to consider and that is that if we’re not getting anything from the Spirit of God; if we’re not hearing anything from the Holy Spirit about our situation we can take the word of God and we can believe the word of God and use our faith to receive healing much like the woman with the issue of blood. “Daughter they faith has made you whole.” Because much like the man being let down to the roof in Luke 5 “And when He saw their faith.” So there are certain things then that we have to have faith in. And we talked about it on our Monday’s program Sid that we need to have faith first of all to be well and that God’s a giver. And that God gives you hands but the issue that we want to focus in on today is “What does God give the sick when hands are laid upon him?” What I’ve discovered is this Sid is that when most people when they step into a prayer line the number one thing that they are looking for is their manifestation. And so when they don’t get their manifestation then they walk away from the prayer line disappointed. It’s almost like a little boy you know at Christmas time he’s got his heart set on a BB-gun. Well when he doesn’t get his BB-gun he treats with disrespect what he does receive. The moment that you have hands laid upon you; the moment that that occurs in your life the healing power of God is administered to your body. What does God give to the sick?
Sid: And by the way I have to emphasize clearly; don’t listen through filtered lens on what Doug is about ready to say. There are those that are listening to us right now you have had hands laid on you by the greatest servants of God on the face of this earth. And everyone you walked away; you might have felt something; you might not have felt something but you walked away, you examined yourself, you saw that you were not healed and your faith level is -zero right now. Please listen.
Doug: You are exactly right; many people have become frustrated because they have misinterpreted what God gives to the sick when they’re prayed for. We thought that it’s been manifestation but what He gives to them is healing power. I can not, I can not testify to the amount of times that I heard Brother Hagin say these words just before he would lay hands on them. “The minute I lay my hands on upon you the healing power of God will be administered to your body but what you do with it after that is up to you.” And I thought to myself as I watched people walk away from that prayer line “They didn’t hear what Brother Hagin said.” He said “The moment I lay my hands upon you the healing power of God.” What does God give to the sick when hands are laid upon him?” He gives them healing power; now what I find interesting is that for the last 30 years we’ve had a tremendous display of God’s healing power being administered to people’s lives in prayer line after prayer line; after prayer line. I can’t tell you how many people we have seen fall under the power. They actually have had hands laid upon them and they fell on the floor as a result of the power of God. There are individuals today that have actually felt the healing power of God go into their bodies. I’ve heard people refer to it as just a warm feeling just went all over my body. I’ve heard other people say “It’s like electricity.” The healing power of God is being so administered to people’s lives that they’re falling out as a result of it; they’re feeling it coming into their bodies. There are actually ministers today who feel the power of God go out of their hands.
Sid: I can tell you as a fact I have prayed for many people and I know, that I know, that I know, that I know, that I know, that I know that they’re healed because I can feel the healing power of God going out of my hands into them and they’re not healed.
Doug: They’re not healed because see you have to Mark 11:24 says “You have to believe that you received; believe that you’ve received.
Sid: And we’re faked out because we believed it if the symptom has disappeared.
Doug: Yes we are; the healing power of God is what is administered first and we must believe that that healing power is administered to our bodies and then begin to release those beliefs with our words. And that power is given time for it to work within our bodies. The moment that the woman with issue of blood in Mark 5; the moment that she touched the hem of His garment it wasn’t a manifestation that came out Jesus’ body it was healing power. The Bible says in Mark chapter 5 in verse 30 “And Jesus immediately known himself that virtue (that word virtue is power) had gone out.” Well, what kind of power had gone out of Him, it had to had been healing power. Healing power is what went out of Him; healing power is what goes out of ministers hands when they lay hands upon them. Luke chapter 6 and verse 19 “And the whole multitudes sought to touch Him for there went virtue.” There went power out of Him “And healed them all.” Here again is another verse that tells us that what God gives to the sick is healing power. And then in Luke 5 in verse 17, and the power of the Lord was present to heal them. It’s very evident to me that we’ve got so focused on the manifestation that we ignore the healing power of God that’s administered to your body. Sid the instant our listeners have hands laid upon them the healing power of God is always administered to their bodies.
Sid: Okay, let’s assume that you have laid hands on me and I have a disease in my body.
Sid: And I haven’t felt a thing.
Doug: You don’t need to feel anything although some people do but you don’t have to feel anything.
Sid: I’m the only one in the line that did not fall over backwards.
Doug: That’s right, exactly right. The healing power of God is still administered and I’ll tell you how we can know that. In the Bible the Bible calls the word of God a seed. It’s likened into a seed in Luke and 1st Peter, the word of God is liken into a seed. If you know anything about seeds, if I had some corn seeds in my hands or some sunflower seeds, what you have in your hand is little suitcases. And little suitcases that contain life and power; life and power. That means then if the word of God is liken unto a seed then everyone. Sid listen “Oh, dear listeners listen; every promise within God’s word is filled with life and power. It’s like a seed, it’s a little container that has life and power within it. Everyone of God’s instructions has life and power contained within it. Now you know as well as I do that a seed, a corn seed or sunflower seed has to be planted in the ground and watered in order for the power within the seed to be released. Well, that’s natural seed; well what about the word of God that’s called a seed. What watering and planting is to corn seed, obedience is to God’s seeds. In other words the instant you obey a verse the power within the verse is released within your life. And so when you obey Mark chapter 16 verses 17 & 18 “That they shall lay hands upon the sick and shall recover.” The moment that you obey that verse the power within that verse is administered to your body, it’s released into your life.
Sid: But as you say it’s a seed not necessarily the plant.
Doug: That’s exactly right; now here’s the issue when Jesus said in Mark 11:23 “Whosoever shall say unto this mountain ‘Be thous removed and cast into the sea and shall not doubt in his heart but shall believe the things that thou say shall come to past; he shall have what-so-ever he saith.’” Sid He’s telling you and I to speak to our mountain and which in our case we’re talking about sickness here; so we’re talking about sickness. And you speak to your sickness according to Mark 11:23 you are administering power to your sickness. Now here’s the issue, the context of Mark 11:23, the scriptures that go before it is the fig tree. The fig tree was not an instantaneous manifestation. We know the story Jesus was traveling from Bethany to Jerusalem; got hungry one morning because as they were going to Jerusalem. Looked into the fig tree couldn’t find anything, stepped back spoke to it. Sid when He spoke to it that tree didn’t just shiver; because that tree just drop over dead. That tree stood there as alive as any tree that we see in our yard today. But He spoke to it; Jesus says “The Same thing that happens to that tree will the same thing that happens to your mountain when you speak to it. That means then that because that it was not an instantaneous manifestation then when you speak to your mountain in Mark chapter 11 verse 23 it’s not going to move that mountain immediately. But what’s going to happen is this a power is going to be administered and in this case the tree to the roots. And that tree; that power that Jesus administered through His spoken word worked in those roots.
Sid: Now what would you do, that was 24 hours it worked there. But what would you do if 3 years went by?
Doug: Well, first of all I would check up to make sure that I’m believing the right thing. Do I believe that it’s God’s will for me to be well. Am I maintaining…
Sid: Oh, we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear God’s voice; after all Jesus made a statement. It’s an absolute truth and this is what He said “My sheep hear My voice.” Richard Mull when you survey people that you speak before you ask the question “How many of you hear God’s voice on a regular basis?” What type of feedback are you getting?
Richard: Well, I ask a series of questions and when I get to that point on hearing God on a regular basis it doesn’t matter what denomination I’m speaking at it’s typically 90% or more don’t hear God on a regular basis.
Sid: That is awful; and as a matter of fact why is it in your opinion?
Richard: In my opinion it’s because no one is ever taught. I have a seminary degree and I never had one class on how to hear God.
Sid: Well, if you hadn’t had a class then for sure you weren’t teaching it.
Richard: That’s right.
Sid: But you know what I find interesting; you were saved at a young age at age 9 and at 13 some young people came to you and they asked a very important question. They asked you “What is God saying to you?” How did you respond?
Richard: I thought they were crazy I never heard anybody talk like that before and I thought their hearing voices. Because no one had ever said anything like that, I never heard God speak to me. I thought that they were hearing voices coming out of the clouds or something and it sounded crazy to me.
Sid: But at that young age of 13 you actually felt the presence of God! Explain.
Richard: I began to understand that what they meant was that they read their Bible every day and learned something about God from the Bible. And so I began to read the Bible every day and I began to pray because others were praying. And I wanted to fit in; I wanted to fit in with this youth group so I was just doing the things that everybody was doing. And one day while I was praying; I knew in my head that God was there and this day was different; I couldn’t see anybody in the room. There was no indentation on the bed next to me but his presence was that tangible. It was as if there was an indentation on the bed and for the first time I was like wow; do I get on my knees; do I lay flat what do I do because God is here; He’s really here.
Sid: Well, I’m told that when you would even pray people would see a difference in the way you pray as opposed to most people.
Richard: Yeah it was a buddy in seminary and others agreed they were like Richard when you pray it’s like God’s really here. And I looked at him so strange like “Yeah, of course!” I realized that most Christians it was a different type of exercise that they were talking to God hoping that He was there; hoping that He could hear them but not knowing it. And somehow as a 13 year old I just began to know He’s here.
Sid: Now why did you go to a seminary?
Richard: I wanted to go into ministry.
Sid: Did you believe God was directing you into ministry?
Richard: Yeah, yeah about a junior in High School and I’d always loved Science and Math and knew that’s what I was going to do with my life. But over about a year period of time I abandoned that call because I knew that there was nothing else I want to do then to win souls for Christ. And the two things I figured I would never do is write and preach. And those are my two favorite things now. But at the time I just wanted to win souls and serve God.
Sid: So you’re at this Baptist Bible College and you’re having discussions, reading books about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. What did you think about these apologetics against speaking in tongues?
Richard: I thought it was hog wash and I wanted to believe them. I wanted because that was my bent; that was my choice what I wanted to come clue. I already somehow had had that fed to me; I don’t remember having anybody talking a lot about it but I knew that it was bad stuff. But it was reading the theological works against tongues and looking up the scriptures for myself I realized that I realized that they didn’t have a leg to stand on they were twisting the scripture.
Sid: Give me one scripture that comes to mind.
Richard: They would taint 1 Corinthians 14 where Paul says “I would that you would all pray in tongues.” And they would say Paul was being sarcastic and Paul says “I pray in tongues more than all of you.” And they said again that trying to pull out from the Greek that he was being sarcastic because it was a church with problems and he was correcting the problems. If you read it for yourself without someone trying to twist an interpretation of that, you know Paul is exalted prophesy above tongues but giving tongues great value. I was from churches that didn’t believe in either. I’m going “This passage really messes with my background and my training. And rather than trying to twist scripture trying to fit my preference and my theological background and my experience I wanted to be true to scripture.
Sid: Okay, you’re in the Baptist College you’re in your dorm room you’re by yourself and you say a bold prayer. What was that prayer?
Richard: After realizing that tongues was a gift from God I said “I don’t want to reject any gift; if You want me to pray in tongues or have any other gifts I give you permission to do that.” And I immediately started praying in tongues.
Sid: Did you have doubts as you were doing this? Was this really God?
Richard: I did for a couple of years I would wrestle when I would pray in tongues. And it was actually a good buddy of mine; a believer from Israel was my best friend and we were in Seminary; or Bible College together. And he said “Richard, it’s when you’re praying that this happens; I know that when you’re praying you’re in God’s presence; why do you doubt it?” And I said “I don’t know,” I see it in scripture; all my theological training was against that but I could see through the arguments but at the same time because I could stop it I thought I must be doing this.
Sid: Okay, with all this theological training we’re you once instructed on how to hear God’s voice?
Richard: I remember one class where the professor talked about God speaking. And it was a psychology professor. And he said that there was only 4 scriptures in the Bible that people use to talk about God speaking. And it was a class of over 100 students and nobody says “You’re joking because there’s way more scriptures than that because most of us had never been taught anything. So everybody just sat there listening and he talked about examples of people that say “God led them to kill somebody,” or “God led them to divorce their spouse.” And you basically came to the conclusion that if anybody said “God spoke to them needs professional, psychological help. Took the 4 scriptures that he thought including Jesus’ Words “My sheep hear my voice,” and told us what they really meant. Now that I have the God’s Speaks Bible and God’s had me in there for so many years I realized that there are so many passages about God speaking and about God’s voice from Genesis to Revelation. How could anyone even say that and how could a group of seminary students not react to that statement?
Sid: Why do you have such a passion that every Bible believer hears God’s voice for themselves? Why do you have such a passion?
Richard: I believe that it’s the foundation that Jesus taught His disciples that He doesn’t give formulas. What He gave is that He said “I do nothing of my own initiative I only do what I see the Father doing.” And I think the foundation of discipleship Jesus was teaching His followers to be dialed into the Father; to know His voice; to hear Him and to be led by the Spirit of God. And there’s nothing that’s impacted my Christian life more. There’s nothing that makes me more effective; I’ve learned a lot and I’ve done a lot of healing ministry. And I could do it by rote; I could do it by experience but I have learned that the most powerful breakthroughs happen when I check all of my experience; all of my knowledge of scriptures at the door and put the Holy Spirit in charge and listen to what He says. Most of the time He surprised me and He takes me in a direction that wasn’t on my radar screen that my training wouldn’t have provided for me and He deals with things so much faster and better than I could if I operate out of my knowledge.
Sid: Okay, in your opinion can any true Bible believer hear God as clearly as you do?
Richard: I believe they have to.
Sid: Especially with what’s about ready to come on planet earth.
Richard: Yes, we have to hear God.
Sid: Okay God Speaks Bible; learn to hear God. You’ve color codes this with such things as every time God speaks; every miracle. Literally when the translation I’m not that familiar with it but I do know that it’s a solid translation. But I love this translation it’s the New English Translation. And you have every miracle in one color; every time there was an angel in one color. It’s color coded you have a beautiful laminated bookmark so that when the see the code they know what it is and it is his intent that as you read the Word you become impregnated with everything supernatural in the Bible. And then the workbook, I love it, it’s a four week course so that that someone will be able to hear God’s voice. Now we’re making the Bible and it’s an imitation leather, but I love it and very very readable print. And perhaps you’re looking to start getting back into the Bible how would you like everything supernatural highlighted and depending on what it is in different colors. And as you read it that means mediate on that; get that word inside of you.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Pastor Ricky Sinclair; he’s Pastor of Miracle Place Church in Baton Rouge Parish, Louisiana. And if you weren’t listening yesterday get the tape. Ricky came from a good middleclass family from the view point of meeting his material needs, but his parents were alcoholics. He fast followed their example not only alcohol but started smoking; then marijuana and drugs; shooting heroin and he became a dealer he got arrested several times. But he’s in that fast lane and he’s decided that he’s going to do a real big deal. He has a Mexican drug smuggler come up and this guy’s got something like 30 pounds of marijuana and the next thing he knew he’s there with his young wife, and he’s young himself he’s only like 22 years old. He’s got a young son he had to you know when you do well you have a lot of money; when you don’t do well you’re struggling. He used the bath towel for the diaper for his son he’s living off a pint of watered down milk per day. They were splitting one turkey-ham sandwich for all three of them. And then all of a sudden bomb the police are there the SWAT Team and they ram into his apartment and they bust the door open. And they put him down on the floor and they say horrible things and his wife is there and his little boy is there and they haul him off to jail. And he thought that he was a real con artist by this time; he came up with a fictitious name; but they figured out who he was. Because as he said on yesterday’s broadcast “There’s no honor among thieves; he was turned in.” And so you figure you’re going to post bail and what happened next Ricky.
Sid: Well, what happened was here I am in the New Orleans Jail; there talking one of the 7 people that were busted with me, of course told them my real name. I told them that my real name was Kent Douglas Smith; and then one of the seven that was busted with me in the house said “No, his name if Ricky Sinclair.” They searched through the computer and found out that I had a warrant that I was actually running from charges from another city. So what they did was they ended up extraditing me back to St. Francisville which was where I was running from charges earlier. Then they started talking about giving me a life sentence because I’m busted with distribution of cocaine, marijuana and Diazepam, which is Valium1982; busted again in 1986 with distribution of marijuana running from those charges. Got busted again in the house they found 14 pounds of marijuana. They found Ecstasy and charged me with possession and the attempt to distribute. Now they’re talking about giving me a life sentence because I’m a habitual offender of 6 felony drug charges against me. And so I’m facing life; I’m scared to death now. What I’ve seen is I’ve seen my whole life pass before my face; 22 years old facing life sentence. Now lights come on; revelation hits me; reality really hits me that life is not about a fantasy life is real; it’s not about partying and drinking and drugging and scheming and scamming and hooking and crooking; while God is looking and booking. Life really has validity, it has purpose; it has vision and I started asking myself “What is the purpose of life? What in the world am I doing in a place called planet Earth? What am I going to do with my life?” I’m facing life now; I’m 22 years old and I’m scared to death. So I got some rabbit in me Sid; I called my grandmother and my grandmother always used to come bail me out and get me out of a lot of trouble and when I called her this time St. Francis was mad at me and they set a million dollar bond on me; cash bond on me. Because I had enough land to actually bond out and so they made it a cash bond.
Sid: Now why would you get life in prison?
Ricky: Six felony charges; drug charges.
Ricky: So when you pass the 3rd fel… the 3rd felony they try you as a habitual offender. That means we slapped you on the hand a couple of times, you don’t want to learn your lesson; we’ve given you an opportunity to change your life; you don’t want to change; you’re a repeat offender; you’re a habitual offender because you’re a habitual offend we’re going to just throw you away. And that’s what they were threatening me with. So here I am facing the life; facing going to prison for the rest of my life. I end up escaping; and so in St. Francisville jail I ran out of the jail. I’ll never forget I got finished finger printing me and booking me in and they took my mug shot. And as a matter of fact my mug shot is on the front of my book; that’s the transformation that took…
Sid: And by the way I’m looking at that Ricky and when you say the word transformation I can see his mug shot of what he looked like and it’s just step by step in what he looks like today and that’s amazing.
Ricky: That’s the light; it’s darkness to light is what it is Sid. You can look in my eyes on the guy on the right side of the book. Because the guy on the left is caught up into drugs and the party scene and doing his own thing under the curse; under the curse of sin. And the guy on the right side of the book is the guy that is living for the Lord and living for God and you can see the light of God in his eyes. And that’s the transformation; so here’s that guy on the left he runs out of the jail after they finish fingerprinting me and taking my mug shot. I knew the lay out of the jail because in 1982 I had done 8 ½ months in that same Parrish jail; I knew the layout of the jail I was a trustee there. And what I did was I asked them if I could wash my hands the bathroom in the front of the jail was right by the door and as soon as I got into that bathroom I’ll never forget; I had a pair of flip-flops on and a black Harley-Davidson t-shirt because I was cool back then. And I took those flip-flops off and put them in my hands and when that jailer turned his head I hit that door as hard as I could and out across that field I went. I had the flip-flops in one hand and police officer had a pair of cowboy boots on. Jumped over the graveyard fence and down into the woods and into the woods I went running. And about 2 hours later here comes the bloodhounds and the helicopters. Now here’s…
Sid: Helicopters for you?
Ricky: Yes sir, I had two major chase teams; I had all the State Police for the state were out there chasing me.
Sid: Now wait a minute this was in the movies; this isn’t supposed to happen in real life Ricky.
Ricky: And that’s what I said and I was the hunted, (laughing –and then making hound dogs sounds). Listen I’m a country boy and when he’s on your sent I’m scared to death; running adrenalin flowing through my body. I wanted to say that when I got into the woods and I was about to die after the first two hills I crossed over. I wanted to say “Everybody turn your head I want to get back into jail; I just teasing,” but it was too late then Sid. You know Sid sometimes you do things and you wish you wouldn’t have done them but it’s too late and you have already done it and now you’re desperate. Now you’re in the situation and you don’t have any choice you just got to keep going forward and that’s what I did.
Sid: Now you’re running through the woods barefoot; what’s going on with your feet; what you running on?”
Ricky: Sid I ran through briers that were that were 5 and 6 and 7 feet tall; the briars literally took the skin out from between the toes. And all my forearms were raw; my feet were like solid stickers. They were like 100′s of stickers in both of my feet and then I ran figure 8′s because I had the bloodhounds on me and what do you do when you got a dog on you? Do you climb a tree absolutely not he smells you he’s on your trail. So I started doing figure 8′s because I deer hunted before and old bucks used to make circles and run their scent right back into itself and trying to get the dogs off of them. And so I started doing some figure 8′s and I went down into the creek and walked up the creek in the water and climbed the vine out of the creek. And ultimately somehow; I don’t know how either the dogs were no good but ultimately I got the dogs off of me and I made it to a place where the blacktop road was down by the Mississippi River where I was going to try to cross the road and then cross the Mississippi River. Before I could get across the road the chase team started setting standards out. So I ended up laying 4 days and 4 nights 25 feet from the chase team guard line and the ants eating the coagulated blood out from between my toes. Every muscle in my body hurt and ached and here I was laying under some briar up on a cliff trying to get across that road and there was no way to across there. And I laid there 4 days and 4 nights and I passed cotton mouth up by 3 days; my tongue was like welded to the side of my mouth. Listen, this is the reality Sid; this is the reality of drugs. It’s not a party; it’s not fun; it starts out to be you think fun; it starts out to be having a good time. But what it ends up to be is bondage. What happens is that you finally grow up one day and you start out as a kid and ultimately one day you graduate high school and then you take on a family. And then you have responsibility and you got to get up and go to work. You got to pay your house note and you got to pay your car note and you got to take on the responsibility to take on your wife and your kid and now you’re not even thinking right. You’re caught up with a stronghold with bondage that’s in your life; it’s called drugs; it’s called alcohol. And by the way alcohol is a drug.
Sid: Ricky hold that thought. You know Mishpochah he spent 56 days out in those woods. What happened to him shouldn’t happen to anyone.
Sid: I want to see you mobilized, I mean it’s great that I’m proclaiming the good news but what is greater is that there are people that are crossing your path that there is no one on the face of this earth that is better equipped to reach with the gospel. Now when it comes to Jewish people most Christians are intimidated. Have misunderstandings, and that’s why I’ve asked my friend Jonathan Bernis from Jewish Voice who if anyone knows the how to reach Jewish people with the gospel it’s my friend Jonathan. Because for the last was it a decade or so Jonathan, how many years.
Jonathan: Well, actually 14 years now.
Sid: Boy, it’s hard to believe, for the last 14 years he has been proclaiming the gospel in festivals. A quarter of a million Jewish people have attended these festivals, half of them have made professions of faith. And Jonathan the thing that is so in this day and age, this day of computers and information flowing like it is there are such misconceptions that real Born Again Christians have about Jewish people. We were talking about that yesterday.
Jonathan: Yes, we were and incredible misconceptions to us as Jewish people who know how wrong these attitudes are. But one misconception I’ve talked about yesterday where we left off is that Christian’s have that Jewish people know the scriptures better than they do; or in particular the Old Testament. And I laugh every time I think about this because we don’t know the scriptures. Ninety percent of American Jews are Bible illiterate, they’re maybe like I prepared for their Bar Mitzvah at age 13 and learned to read Hebrew and maybe one portion of scripture but that’s it. I learned Hebrew Sid and never learned what I was reading. So…
Sid: And in that same with me.
Jonathan: Exactly when you were saying yesterday they don’t know about Isaiah 53; they don’t even know who Isaiah is or Jeremiah. I mean they know what the Torah is but they don’t know what the Torah says. And so this misconception that the Jewish people are the people of the Book which is one of the terms for the Jewish people is just a very serious misconception. And it creates this fear factor Christians. I’m not going to share with them because they’ll embarrass me because they’ll know the scriptures so well. Well, unless they have a black, a long black coat, pe’ot these side locks and a black hat they don’t know the scriptures at all. So go to it.
Sid: And I’ll just add a PS to that, if your just a Christian that attending Sunday school as a child you have a better education of the scriptures than 98% of the Jewish people that God will have cross your path. Go ahead.
Jonathan: Exactly, most do not have any concept of the Messiah, or sin or what the Jewish scriptures clearly teach. So one very important principal is to share with a Jewish person as you would share with anyone else that needs the Lord. They have the same crisis’s in their life; they have to face the same fate that we all face. Which is death and what happens after you die. And taxes of course; we have to pay taxes. But Jewish people are approachable. Another misconception is that all Jewish people have rejected Christ as Messiah, that’s another misconception as a nation. The Rabbis’ have steered us in a different direction but many Jewish people Sid are open to the gospel. And I love being with you and watching you share with every person that comes across your path. One of the best places to reach Jewish people is the deli; the local deli.
Sid: Naugh naugh your wrong the best place is a Chinese restaurant Jonathan.
Jonathan: Chinese restaurant.
Sid: (Laughing) He’s also right on that but go ahead.
Jonathan: Oh, it’s absolutely true but you know why are we intimidated as believers from sharing the gospel with Jewish people that need to hear. We shouldn’t be, so those are misconceptions. So another very serious misconception Sid is Christians Born Again Spirit-filled Christians that have been taught that it’s good will not to share with Jewish people. There’s something called dual covenant theology that simply states that it’s a theological idea that emerged after the Holocaust that says that Jewish people have their own path to God through Judaism. And it’s made it’s way, it’s seeped into evangelical Christianity like a plague and it’s totally false. Paul makes it very clear, the Apostle Paul said “The gospel is the power of God to all who believe first to the Jew and then to the Gentle.” The gospel is to the Jew first, and so to believe the Jewish people have a separate plan…way to God to salvation is really a demonic theology. It’s a doctrine of devils and so we have to be…
Sid: And I might add unfortunately Mishpochah there are many even prominent telly evangelists that have this theology worked into their books to let you off the hook so you don’t have to share with the Jewish person. But scriptures say “There is no other Name given unto men in which we must be saved but the Name of Jesus.
Jonathan: And that’s to the Jew first and this is a terrible misconception and we have to be on guard not to buy into unscriptural doctrine. So we need to; not target the Jewish people as such but we need to see Jewish people that God has placed in our path as Divine appointments. Sid let me tell you a very sad story which of course has a great ending but it’s a sad story. I started to hear the gospel at age 16; I was involved with a group called Young Life.
Sid: I’m familiar with it.
Jonathan: Many of my Gentile friends become born again Christians and I could not deny the change that I was seeing taking place in their life. I heard the gospel numerous times but every time I was confronted with the gospel who do you say that He is Jonathan by two Christian counselors in Young Life and then Christian friends. I responded always just off the cuff, I’m Jewish. The sad story Sid is that they always apologized instead of tell me “Oh, that’s fantastic Jesus was Jewish and His name was Yeshua; all of the disciples were Jewish; the Apostle Paul was Jewish, the writers of the New Testament were Jewish; the covenant; this new covenant was made with your people.” Instead they automatically understood that being Jewish was that I was excluded from the gospel.
Sid: Listen, there’s something even worse than that it’s called “Fear of man.” I have talked to prominent Christians that were so interested in understanding their Biblical roots they befriended Rabbis’ and leaders in the Jewish community and they studies with them. And I said “Did you ever share the gospel?” They said, “No no they know what I believe they could have asked me.” What a tragedy!
Jonathan: That’s tragic and it’s really the result of some very very wrong understanding and it needs to be changed. Sid the good news is that 4 years later in college I was encountered again with the gospel and my life was transformed. But just think Sid, I think back often to those 4 years if someone had just told me the truth, that this was for me as a Jew I might have been spared through from all kinds of garbage that you know about that I got involved in. But nobody did, so this misconception is killing Jewish people eternity. I can’t state strongly enough that this misconception is causing Jewish people to go to Hell. There’s no other way to say it.
Sid: Well, you know there’s a flip side of this and the flip side is from the traditional Jewish community we’re given the rhetoric that you can’t be Jewish and believe in Jesus. The Christians on the other side aren’t witnessing and they have this misguided theology. And on the Jewish side we’re told that we can’t be Jewish and believe in Jesus. What would you say to a Jewish person that said that to you?
Jonathan: I would say, “Tell that to Peter, James, tell that to John.”
Sid: I don’t know who they are Jonathan, my Rabbi says that I can’t be Jewish and believe in Jesus.
Jonathan: I would say “Why don’t you find out for yourself instead of believing what the Rabbi is teaching you and he’s just been taught because that’s what his Rabbi taught him. You know this has been handed down Sid for the last 2000 years from generation to generation to generation. And I found out 24 years ago that I was simply taught a lie. And we need to find out; you need to find out for yourself. Read the Jewish scriptures for yourself; I’m not even talking about the New Testament. Go back and read the Jewish scriptures, read the Tenach, read the Prophet Isaiah, read Jeremiah, read the Torah and you’ll find prophecy after prophecy after prophecy that talk about a literal Messiah that will come and deliver our people. And clearly Yeshua of Nazareth, Jesus the Messiah fulfilled all of these prophecies.
Sid: You know Jonathan I was just getting a sandwich and I started a conversation with a guy behind me he says “He’s Catholic and that he knows the Lord and that his wife is Jewish and now she’s Catholic.” And so I corrected him, I said “No, your wife isn’t going to change being Jewish she’s always been Jewish and she stays Jewish.” Even Paul said that he was a Jew but got, literally got angry with me when I told him that his wife is still Jewish.
Jonathan: I’m not surprised, it’s called tradition Sid, it’s called tradition.
Sid: You mean we Jewish people don’t have a corner on the market “Tradition!” (Laughing)
Jonathan: No, it’s part of human nature to…and you know what it is Sid, it’s really casting God in our image, that’s what it really is when you really…the bottom line is as we say is “You cast God in your own image when you create through tradition your own understanding of what religion should be.” That’s not what it’s about it’s believing what He says about His plan for eternal life and His plan for how we should live.
Sid: Jonathan we’re out of time we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: Now you would say “Boy if what happened to Tommy Almonte happened to me I would be red hot for the Messiah.” Well the truth of the matter is my guest Tommy Almonte and I’m speaking to him by way of telephone at his home in Grand Rapids, Michigan who had an encounter with the Holy Spirit. He told me before we started the show that the Holy Spirit said to tell you that it is simple, and to tell you how simple it is to have a relationship with Him. But Tommy after you started having a relationship with the Holy Spirit you started one a week and now you get together with the Holy Spirit at 5:30 am every morning. The Holy Spirit audibly says to you when you come in “Good Morning Tommy.” How important is that to you Tommy?
Tommy: You know it reminds me that He really is God in the sense that He really has not changed. The Bible says “He doesn’t change.” When He created Adam and Eve He wanted intimacy. The Bible says “He will come and walk with them every single day.” He has not changed that desire that He had with Adam and Eve is the same desire that He has with me; the same desire that He has with you Sid. And sometimes we forget it it’s why He created you and I is so that we can have intimacy with Him.
Sid: Now you started seeing a little afterwards angels; tell me the first time you saw an angel.
Tommy: You know the first time I saw anything that was outside of the physical and more in the spiritual I was home and I went to bed and I woke up and it was about maybe 2 or 3 in the morning, and by the door the Holy Spirit was standing there. Now I tapped my wife and I said “Honey, you need to wake up, you need to see this.” And she opened her eyes and she said “Ah, tomorrow” she was really tired but she didn’t wake up. But that was the first time that I just being able to see the Holy Spirit. What He did to me is that He went from just hearing His voice to now seeing Him.
Sid: Now I have a question now for you though; how do you know that it was the Holy Spirit and not an angel?
Tommy: Now there are a lot of characteristics now that the Bible talks about angels, but deep in my spirit I knew that this was the Holy Spirit. I knew that deep in my spirit that this was not an angel.
Sid: So now He’s talking to you and now you literally had a visitation where you could see his presence. What does this mean to you day to day? It’s a wonderful experience but what does this mean when you go suppose you are flying across the United States as you’re going to take a long flight to perhaps do my television show. What might be different in your life then before you had this relationship with the Holy Spirit?
Tommy: You know now I know Sid that… now I do believe that the reason why I was created was to have intimacy with Him. Any moment anytime that I can find to let Him know just like when you’re dating someone that a person is at a distance you find a way to let that person know that “Hey how you doing, or hi I noticed you there.”
Sid: You know most of us segment these things like it’s Sunday morning or Saturday morning in a church or a Messianic Jewish Congregation, but you’re saying that you have a running discussion with Him all day long?
Tommy: Sometimes, I mean I have a job and when I’m at work and doing even my work day sometimes He once said to me “I want you to do this, or I want you to do that.” Sometimes He’s said to me “I need to talk to you when you get home can you set aside an hour to meet with Me.” And I will get home and I’ll spend time with my daughter and then I will go and spend time with Him. Sometime He would just share things with me so I can pray with Him about some things that He’s praying about. The Bible says “He intercedes for.” He’s always interceding. But we have… it’s a normal relationship that’s why I say it’s simple Sid because even though you get to a point where you’re walking in intimacy, but the relationship with the Holy Spirit is no different than my relationship with my relationship with my spouse. Meaning that there was a beginning where I didn’t know my spouse and now we’re driven by knowing everything about that person. Then once I got to know her I needed to accept who she was; not accepting my spouse the way she is and who she is would hinder our relationship. And it’s the same with the Holy Spirit; sometimes we want to know the Holy Spirit and we want to have a relationship with God an intimate relationship with God, but we don’t accept the fact, we don’t accept who He is who the Bible says He is, that He’s a person with feelings and emotions. And not until we really accept that and believe that we cannot move into the next step which is intimacy with the Holy Spirit. And I believe many times we just get… we stop in that area you know; we go through the area where we ask for forgiveness but when we get to the point where we have to acknowledge who He is without having a hidden agenda; coming clean and saying whether you don’t believe in Him saying “I want to believe in You but teach me how. Because it’s not easy going from not knowing the Holy Spirit into wanting to develop a relationship with the Holy Spirit it’s simple in the sense of any other relationship that you might have. The same relationship that you have with your significant other your spouse is the same process that you can use to develop this relationship with the Holy Spirit. There are no differences.
Sid: What advice would you give a listener right now that says “Well, I’m born again, I believe in Jesus, I believe in the Holy Spirit, but I can’t say that I hear the Lord’s voice that much. I can’t say I have a relationship with the Holy Spirit.” You told me, and you actually state in the book, that the Holy Spirit made sure that you did not worship Him; explain that.
Tommy: You know I think because we’re stepping into the spiritual and we’re not familiar with the spiritual and it’s so new to us that one day I wanted to spend time with the Holy Spirit and I started worshiping the Holy Spirit. I literally said “I worship You Holy Spirit. And He said “No, you worship Jesus, you have… I’ll guide you into Jesus and you worship Jesus.” He reminded me that the Father said “I’m going to send a Son” and then the Son Jesus said “I’m going to send the Holy Spirit and through Him you might know Me.” The same and the Holy Spirit will remind you and He’s reminded me that My job is to bring you into Jesus so you might know Him better. Because as you get to know Me you will get to know Him but worship Him don’t worship Me because that was not why I was sent to you. I was sent to you so I could bring you into His presence. You know one of the things that now I’m accustomed to see is anytime that Jesus is going to walk into a room and I see Him walking into different services, I’ve been in different services and I’ve seen Him literally walk into a room so I can see Him. Any time before He walk into a room the Holy Spirit has to come in and walk into that room. Jesus will never, never walk into a room or walk into where you are without the Holy Spirit. It’s just the same as when you see the Secret Services, or you see the FBI you know that someone else is coming meaning the President will be walking into that room. The same way without the Holy Spirit there’s no Jesus.
Sid: Tommy, give me step 1. What’s the first thing that I should do?
Tommy: The first thing is to confess; to come to a place where you confess that you have grieved the Holy Spirit whether by watching someone that was ministering and you said “Huh this is a joke or this is…” or by a fact that this not a person you are just a ghost somewhere out there. Or just by one of these 52% believers that say “You’re not real, you do not exist.” Confess and when I say confess not in your mind but verbally let Him know, verbalize that go into a room close the door and say to Him “I’m sorry Holy Spirit.” And be specific say “I’m sorry for the time that I had done this and this and this; I do want to get to know You and I know that without this I will hinder the ability to walk into a relationship with You.” Once that takes place you can find that something will happen in your spirit He will produce you will drop the weight of even not knowing that you were carrying that. And then the next facet will be acknowledging who He is and coming to a place where you can freely say “You are who the Bible says You are; You are what the Bible says You are a person with feelings and emotions; You are the third person of the trinity and acknowledging who He is.
Sid: And you know Tommy we are out of time today…