Sid: Hello Sid Roth here with Mark Virkler and Mark during the commercial break you told me about how you have learned supernaturally mediate on God’s word. Give me a scripture that you mediated on that literally was life changing to you.
Mark: Alright the scripture is that “We are transformed while we look not at things that are seen but things that are not seen.” And I thought really I thought that I was transformed by looking at the law of scripture which says “Thou shall not steal.” And setting my will to do it and that law was not in the unseen world that was in the seen world. And I set my will to do it and I try hard to not steal and I succeed some days and don’t other days. “So Lord what do You mean when you say I’m transformed by looking into the unseen world? What is in the unseen world that I would look at that would transform me?” And as I journaled about it that’s part of the book of meditation you would look at a book and you’d journal about it. Here’s what the Lord said to me “Mark whatever you fix your eyes on grows within you and whatever grows within you you become.” He said “I want you to fix your eyes on Jesus and I want you to see Him in the unseen world, I want you to see what He’s doing and I want your to say ‘Yes Lord’ to that and do that.” So if I’m angry and mad and I want to hit a person before I hit him I just look and see if Jesus is hitting that person and sure enough he’s not he’s got his arm around him and he’s loving him and he’s pouring some oil into him; “Mark heal this person’s heart.” And if I say yes Lord to that I’m transformed from a hitter to a lover because I looked into the unseen world and saw Jesus in action and I took that home. And before I knew enough to do that I used to look in all the wrong places I used to look at Bible law and that just made me a legalist. And sometime I would look at my sin and my weakness and that just made me depressed. And the Lord said “Mark I didn’t tell you to look at your sin or your weakness, I didn’t even tell you to live under the law.” He said “I told you to live by the Spirit and walk by the Spirit, and worship in the Spirit and pray in the Spirit, and if you did do that you’re not even under the law; not that the law goes away it’s a safety net underneath to catch me to catch me if I ever fall from the Spirit. But He said “You’re called to live by the Spirit to see what the Father’s doing to do what He’s doing and to live out of that.” So I’ve learned to keep my eyes fixed on Jesus whose at my right hand all of the time and He’s there with you and see what He’s doing tune to flow and let it come alive and live out of that vision that comes alive.
Sid: You know something that you just said is so profound but you didn’t say it God said it to you and that is “Whatever you fix your eyes on will grow within you.” So what about people that use television as a diversion and you can’t watch TV without having stuff slipped in that you don’t want to see. I mean I have to tell you I watch news and sports and I’m having trouble with both of them now. The news is so negative today that I end up talking about what’s going in current events rather than Jesus because I guess it grows within me.
Mark: That’s exactly right, the Bible says “Dwell on things which are lovely, just and pure and that surely doesn’t include the news because it’s dwelling on what’s negative. And one day when I was looking at Washington DC and feeling really depressed I said “Man what I see down there scares me to death because they don’t have moral integrity, they spend money out of control, they don’t honor the word of God.” And I was full of fear that they’re going to capsize the economy because the spend without any control, restraint and I was angry they had no morals. And I said “Well hold it Mark anger and fear are not gifts of the Holy Spirit” And so I said “Okay I’m going to do my morning devotions I said “Lord I think I need a new picture of Washington DC because the picture I’m looking at doesn’t contain you I just see evil and corruption, I don’t see Jesus” which means I’m looking at a picture which contains a lie because Jesus is everywhere. And so I said “Lord where are You in Washington DC?” And I mean I put a smile on my face and I tuned into pictures which is the way I get a vision and I flow in picture drifted into my mind of Jesus enthroned on the throne above Congress. And the White House with long flowing robe flowing down over Congress and the White House and His glory streaming down over Congress and the White House and He spoke a flowing thought to me which I journaled it up. He said “Mark I rule in Washington DC.” He said “I’m King of kings and I’m Lord of lords I rule.” Well that picture healed my anger, healed my fear, healed my pessimism because if I don’t see Jesus in action I’m as negative as can be. And one of the Rhema words the Lord spoke to me many years ago was that leadership; it automatically transferred to those that remained optimistic. And if I’m going to sit around with the doldrums’ I can’t be a leader for Christ. And we want to be leaders for Christ and so I need to get rid of pessimism God’s not pessimistic…
Sid: Well you just said such a mouthful I need you to say it again. What did God tell you about leadership?
Mark: Leadership is automatically transferred to those that remain optimistic.” And He spoke that to me on a day where I was still a pessimist. I was down in the mouth and drowning and it convicted my heart and man I’m so convinced. I mean God’s not pessimistic, He’s not down in the mouth; He’s absolutely convinced He rules the universe. And He would like His bride to believe that (Laughing). And I wasn’t taught that in my early Christian years.
Sid: Let’s zero back to the 4 keys that God showed you when you took a year to learn how to hear His voice.
Mark: Okay, so Habakkuk 2:1, 2 verse 1 was “Spirit of God spoke to me to go to your guidepost and become still.” The second thing was Habakkuk said “I’m going to keep watch to see what He’s going to speak to me.” And there’s 2 keys there the seeing one and the speaking one. And we’ve kind of defined the speaking one already as God voice sounds like flowing thoughts or spontaneous thoughts which means…
Sid: You know most people think that its sort of like Charlton Heston in “The Ten Commandments” with the booming voice and that’s where we get faked out a lot.
Mark: That’s where we get messed up because that’s not the way it comes 99½ % of the time to most of us. Alright I’ve had that experience once in my whole life and I’m 62 years of age so I normally hear His voice as spontaneous flowing thoughts. And so does everybody and if they honor that and step into that then they can hear God’s voice everyday all the time even in the supermarket. You’re checking out you can picture Jesus next to that lady there and you can say “Hey Lord what nice thing do you want to say to her?” I turn to flow and a flowing thought comes to you and you can share it with her and you’ve prophesied, give a word of wisdom, word of knowledge effortlessly right there in the supermarket.
Sid: Are you telling me that they’re many people that take this supernatural course; and it is supernatural it came from God and they never prophesied, they never had words of knowledge this starts?
Mark: Absolutely, absolutely I mean I talked to a woman last week in a seminar and she said “She heard my teaching several years ago and it opened up the entire gift of prophecy to her and that’s what she functions in right now.” And so yeah it opens up any and all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit because once you hear His voice His voice just flows out through each one of those gifts.
Sid: Okay that was the first key what was the second?
Mark: Alright “I will keep watch to see.” And I mean I asked the Lord what that was about and He said “Mark fix your eyes on Jesus.” He said “Pray the prayer that Paul prayed in Ephesians 1:17.” He said “I pray that the eyes of your heart would be enlightened.” And I said “Huh…I went through Bible college and I never prayed that prayer, I never even focused on the eyes of my heart; I don’t know anything about the eyes of my heart.” He said “You take the eyes of your heart and you fix them on Jesus.” And I said “Is it hard?” He said “It’s got to be simple enough for a child because you can’t enter the Kingdom unless you’re a child.” If you make any of this more difficult than a 7 year old can do it, and I have a 7 year old granddaughter who does this and journals and sends me her journaling by email. If you make it harder than that you’ve wrecked it okay. So to make sure I don’t make it hard I smile, when I’m there at my computer and my hands on the keyboard I put a smile on my face because then I’m not grunting and I’m not making it hard. I mean if Jesus can be laughing I can be laughing and it calms me down and I get out of own laboring and get into His rest and get a flow going. And you can’t get a flow going if you’re striving and grunting, so big smile on your face and picture Jesus right next to me and I define that as godly imagination. I define godly imagination as picturing things God says are so. So if God’s says “Jesus is Immanuel next to me” well then He’s here next to me. And there’s no reason in the world I can’t picture my theology if I can think it I can sure picture it. And if a picture’s worth a thousand words then I just intensified within me by a thousand fold the spiritual reality. Just like the father in faith when God gave him a picture of the stars in the heaven the next verse says “Then he believed,” Genesis 15:5, 6. So if I want heart faith, if I want faith that can cast mountains in the sea I need pictures from God; God’s not afraid to give pictures He gave… Jesus without a parable He taught them not. So I don’t need to fear picturing, I don’t need to fear Godly imagination, I need to define it and say “I can move into that.” So I’m going to quiet myself down, the easiest way to quiet myself down is to picture Jesus. If I’m picturing Jesus it calms my thoughts, focuses me in on Him and my brains not just empty it’s focused in the presence of Jesus. And I write down “Good morning Lord what do You want to say to me?” Put a smile on my face tune to flow which is a third key which is “His voice is flowing thoughts.” And then the 4th key “God said to Habakkuk “Inscribe the vision.” Just begin to write out the flow of ideas that come and that simple act of writing is we stay in that faith mode for 5 minutes or 10 minutes and write in faith. Because I know that when the flow is on I can go back and test it then which means I don’t have to test it now. If I can write for 5 or 10 minutes without testing it I can get 10 minutes of stuff.
Sid: Now when just out of curiosity when you’re writing for 5 or 10 minutes do you stop then for while and think “What am I going to write next?” Or do you just write without thinking this is what I’m trying to understand?
Mark: Yeah I write without thinking because thinking for me is Mark Virkler controlling my cognitive thoughts myself and linearly putting stuff together connecting with my the sins of the prophets just doing the connecting I don’t want that. I want to die daily, I want Christ to come alive I want to hear His voice. So connecting thinking is Mark Virkler’s thinking and flow…flowing thoughts come from the spirit realm. And if it’s flowing accusation, condemnation and lies it’s demonic. If it’s flowing comfort and faith and hope it’s coming from the Holy Ghost. So I only want one kind of flow the flow that lines up with the names of Jesus. I’ve got my eyes fixed on Jesus doing the flow and here’s one of the rules…yeah if the flow stops. I’m here typing and the flow stops instead of thinking I just go back and picture Jesus put a big smile on my face, picture Him very clearly again and say “Hey Lord is there more that You want to say to me?” And the smile on my face and my eyes fixed on Jesus the flow will bubble up again and I start typing again.
Sid: Now let me ask you this question. I’m Jewish coming from a Jewish background I was always told don’t make any image of God and I recognize I can picture Jesus but I think I have a little blockage because of that training from just being a child. And I don’t know in other words I don’t what Jesus to picture by that I mean is what is He look like; how do I picture Him? Do you understand my question?
Mark: I sure do and you know He’s got 100 names in the Bible which means He’s probably got 100 faces. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John preached and I was told different faces an eagle and ox, a man and a servant you know. And then you find those in the Book of Revelation if I’m from a totally black church I’ve seen Jesus as black, and if I’m white He’s usually white. And the color of His skin is not what I’m coming to it’s His character, it’s His nature.
Sid: Yes but you’re seeing an image when you visualize.
Mark: And when I first saw that image I saw Him from the shoulders on down, long flowing robes, gentle loving countenance reaching out to engulf me in reams of love that’s what I saw. And when I finally did see a face after a few weeks His eyes were sparkling full of laughter and a great big smile on His lips, that’s what I saw. And I’m not real concerned about the color of His skin, I believe He becomes all things to all people and that’s great. I think that He has more than one face, I think that we see through a veil darkly and so…
Sid: And so are you saying to me that when you visualize Jesus sometimes He…alright skin color I get but you’re saying even His facial characteristics are different on different times?
Mark: Well yeah He can be firm, yeah He can be firm if He needs to be and He’s not laughing necessarily and so it’s two lovers sharing love. So it’s just you and your wife together you know…
Sid: Okay but if I want to picture my wife in my imagination I have no difficulty doing that because I’ve seen her in the natural that’s what I’m trying to figure out.
Mark: When Jesus in the natural is somebody with two arms, two legs, somebody with a torso and long flowing robes for most of us sometimes He has sandals and that’s what I see. Some people see Him in wranglers and you can find; the actual color of His skin I don’t think it’s real crucial. Like Paul says “We see though a glass darkly.” And I think that any glimpse we get of Jesus it’s only a glimpse of one part of Him it’s not the fullness of Him because we’d probably melt down if we saw the fullness of Him. We’ve seen a little bit you know like the guy who saw an elephant and just saw a little bit and we’re just seeing a little bit and that’s fine. I mean it’s His word, we’re coming to the Wonderful Counselor to receive wonderful council to have our hearts healed up of fear and anger and frustration. It’s the words He’s speaks, it’s His arms around us that hold us, it’s His touch as we feel His touch and our cells are energized that’s where we’re coming to not the color of our skin.
Sid: Okay now tell me just a little bit more about this journaling.
Mark: Yeah, I didn’t think journaling was going to help me at all because I don’t like writing and I’m not very good at spelling and grammar and I thought it would mess it up big time, but if you look in the Bible if you look at David He wrote a 150 Psalms and John wrote 22 chapters of 2 visions in Revelation. Well these are men and so I tried it and instead of it crushing my prayer time it released it. And I asked God “Why did journaling release my prayer time and let me hear Your voice for 10 or 15 minutes? And He said “Mark before we began to journal as soon as I began speaking and give you a thought you would instantly test it and say ‘Hmm wonder if that came from God?’ You’d jam the receiver, hang up on Me and I can’t get more than 2 words out of My mouth but with journaling you stay in faith for 5 minutes and you write in flow for 5 minutes and I can talk to you for 5 full minutes because you know you can test it after the flow is done and make sure it lines up with scripture, but then you’re not jamming the receiver and hanging up on me because you allowed Me to speak for 5 minutes without doubting Me.” Because if I’m going to shift from faith to doubt I jam the receiver and hang up on God because those who come to God must come in faith. So journaling lets me stay in faith for 5 minutes or 10 minutes and receive 5 minutes of Him talking to me.
Sid: …Mark last thought.
Mark: Well I just like to say I just pray for the scales to fall from people’s eyes and blindness to be gone and for them to see clearly into the spirit realm and to hear clearly the voice of the Lord Jesus. I speak that to you in Jesus name Amen.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is John Caver I’m speaking to him at his office in Baltimore, Maryland. And if you’re like me Mishpochah the whole arena of physical healing we know a lot but there’s so much more we have to know. And when I found out that John Caver has spent 30 years commissioned by the Lord to study the gifts of miracles and healings and the various gifts of the Spirit I thought he’s a man that I want to interview. Let me take you back John to 1968 and you had a very unusual dream tell me about it.
John: Well I was running from God like most sinners are and I had a visitation by God by dream and Jesus Christ appeared to me and let me know that He loved me. Nobody had ever told me that they loved me as far as God was concerned they always told me that I was going to go to hades but never to heaven so therefore this visitation from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was a great experience to me and I didn’t know what to do with it. But He touched my hand and when he did touch me the powers of darkness totally released me I woke up out of the dream saying “Somebody’s in our room” but startled my wife something terrible like “Whose here, whose here?” And after that it was probably a week or 2 maybe even longer before I actually started to attend the church.
Sid: But previous to that it was quite a transformation…
John: Oh yes.
Sid: Tell me a little bit about your lifestyle previous to that encounter.
John: Well my life style was 2 packs of cigarettes a day, I was a barber and drinking pretty heavily, come from a broken home, abused, my father was an alcoholic. And this transferred but I found my dad dead and immediately I sensed the powers of darkness of Satanic grab a hold of my life. I felt like I had a monkey on my back somebody followed me around for 6 solid years and finally I thought I was losing my mind literally thought I was losing my mind. And so I drank in order to escape this insanity and consequently it got a hold of me really bad and consequently I was drinking and driving back and forth from work a 6 pack on the seat and you know a half a pint in my hand. So you know alcohol became a real crutch and I was running from God as well. At 8 years old He tugged on my heart and at 10 told me to minister but I didn’t want any part of it.
Sid: Now you had an unusual occurrence a magazine had had pictures of AA Allen and his great healing healing ministry came into your hands what affect did that have on you?
John: Well it had a tremendous affect on me after giving my heart to the Lord and having Him delivering me being very ill from all of the bad living from all of those years I needed a healing in my life and Christ did that. And so my brother who worked for AA Allen and my sister consequently put me on his mailing list I didn’t ask for it they put me on his mailing list and I was getting his magazines. And this one particular magazine it had probably 6 or 7 photographs on there of Allen praying for the sick. And as I was looking at it the Spirit of God spoke to my heart and said “If you pass your test one day I will use you like this.” And I can say today 30 years later that that’s what happened.
Sid: Well I have to ask you the question “Was it a series of tests or was it one test?
John: Yes a series of tests and yeah it was a series of tests.
Sid: Can you tell me one?
John: Well one was learning to trust, I was a person who was raised never to trust anybody. And when you have an alcoholic father who kind of was a street brawler you kind of put your back to the wall. Even today when I go into a restaurant I’ll put my back against the wall it’s just habit. But when you were raised on the street and I was raised on the street and you just didn’t trust and so the hardest thing in the world for me and even today I struggle in trusting God. God is my Father my heavenly Father and if you have an earthly father that taught you never to trust anybody that’s deep seeded that if any man be in Christ he’s a new creature.” You’re told that new natures in you but your still battling those old bruises and I had a lot of them.
Sid: And you went into ministry but you kept having a reoccurring dream this fascinates me tell me what that dream was.
John: Well I was first saved and converted one of the visitation that I had from God was a constant, when I say constant well you got to figure it’s been 30 years so in those 30 years probably a dozen times would be America being brought to her knees. And in various ways metaphorically God would show in symbols and things would show me. We even put one article in a magazine that we produced years ago called “Remove Not the Old Landmarks” where it showed the not the destruction of America but humbling of America. We need to get back to what our forefathers did in trusting God like Washington kneeling down and praying for guidance, the first president of the United States. We need that desperately especially the hour were living in today especially after what we just seen. We need that trust I don’t want to sound like I’m preaching here tonight but that’s what that’s what I saw many ways, many times.
Sid: Actually I was shooting for another reoccurring about the church dressed up for a party.
John: Alright that was really something; early on just…I didn’t know I didn’t know what word of knowledge was. Here’s a guy who comes off the street I don’t know anything about gifts of the Spirit. I would have these… then I didn’t know what they were and this vision that I had was I stepped out of the pews the pews turned into wheat fields and each area of the wheat field there was either a person or an animal that represented a certain culture or peoples that were in different nations. And when I turned back to the church to get their help to help me harvest the people they were having a party they were blowing whistles the kind the little kids use at birthday parties and confetti was going everywhere and they were having pointed little hats and they were just dancing and having a good time but nobody was concerned for the harvest; no matter what I did I couldn’t get their attention but I knew that it would take the church not a superstar ministry in order to deliver the world. The harvest is great and its white to harvest now and hopefully the church will do its job.
Sid: You went on a vacation to Arizona but something very strange happened to you there.
John: We hadn’t had a vacation in 10 years and we were in the process of leaving Arizona and the Spirit of God would not let me leave and this went on for quite a long time several hours. And after coming back home and God dealing with me again about going out to Arizona and a very strong scriptural way and not some kind of crazy stuff but very scriptural got me to go back to Arizona. When I did I found a warehouse full of material that were the tools to help train people for the ministry of signs, wonders and miracles.
Sid: Now for those that aren’t familiar with AA Allen tell me a little bit about him.
John: AA Allen probably in my estimation was looking at the healing movement and I’ve studied it from end to end for 30 years. Is one of the greatest characters on the healing movement scene. He was well versed in God using him in various gifts, raised in a hard, hard life like myself had a father was an alcoholic and a mother. Raised in various difficult time during the depression his body was emaciated just like myself the doctors only gave me a little time to live. His body was emaciated from the hard living that he went through not to make comparisons I’m not comparing myself with anybody. The point is that AA Allen had a visitation of God and God told him that he wanted to use him in a certain way and these were the things that were standing in his way and he gave him 13 things. In the process of dealing with his character, and that’s what that whole books about the price of God’s miracle working power is dealing with our characters. Getting the things it’s not that we’re not saved but there are things in our characters that doesn’t please God so there for God told Allen he nailed down 11 of them and finally God began to move him into a ministry that is still going on today through the literature and films and tapes.
Sid: And so what did you do with all of this vast resource that most people didn’t have available of what God taught AA Allen in the great miracle ministry he had.
John: Well I’ll tell you what I spent a lot of years just gleaning the material and trying to save them. My biggest point that I took I can’t tell you exactly how many years but I can tell you it was over 50 trips that I made to Miracle Valley Arizona to harvest or collect because I was only allowed a carful at a time and then we pay for them and we would bring them back and then when opportunity knocked again and I had to wait for them to say you could come I would drive back and forth to do that. So we literally took out 10’s of 1000’s of Bible studies of books and films and initially captured the whole mechanics of Allen’s ministry.
Sid: You know we’re out of time right now but Mishpochah I definitely want you to listen to this week because you’re going to understand some mysteries that should not be mysteries to you.
Sid: I think that’s a pretty apt description of my guest Bishop George Bloomer. He’s Senior Pastor at Bethel Family Worship Center in Durham, North Carolina. Before we went on the air we had a little small talk if you will, and he was telling me how appreciative he was that because many Christian programs they limit what he can or can’t say about the supernatural of God. Of course what I said to him is “The only thing that limits you is time.” I want you to say anything because… listen here we are at the last of the last days and if God’s people hold back on the supernatural power of God what chance do we have the devil doesn’t hold back an inch. So on yesterday’s broadcast George you were talking about… I asked you the question “Are people being set free from your new book or do they read it then have to go to a meeting that you’re at or someone else’s?” And you explained that “People are being set free from my book ‘Weapons for Wars.’” You were working on a book and would you start that story again?
George: Yes, you know scriptures teach us “That ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” So deliverance takes place when you hear the truth. I was working on a book and my family had gone out to the fair and I was the house all alone by myself and was going through the edits on the tape. While I was listening to the tape I broke out into a cold sweat and I felt like I had to throw up. So I got up and I went into the restroom positioned myself in front of the commode and nothing happened. I got up maybe a minute later and went back into the room and turned the tape recorder back on because I had turned it off. Rewound it for a minute listened and when it got to the same part again it happened. Now this happened about 4 or 5 times before I realized that what I was physically experiencing had something to with what I was physically hearing. So I went back to it and in the tape I was dealing with identifying and breaking generational curses and on the tape I was dealing with rejection. Every time my spirit heard the edits from it there was a manifestation. So I went into the bathroom and I got down on my knees in front of the commode and I prayed to God and I renounced all of those spirits of rejection that was lying dormant in me and that was hiding in me and I commanded them to come out. Immediately there was a manifestation and in my physical mind fear began to grip me, and in my spirit mind I began to ask the Lord to cover me with His blood because there was no one there to assist me and I felt like I was choking and I was. I began to release something was coming out of me and I noticed that that day I hadn’t eaten anything. So everything that came out of me came out of my spirit and God set me free. So in the book “Weapons for Warriors” in this book I deal with how to identify and break generational curses. I got set free when I was listening to the tape.
Sid: What are some evidences of curses in someone’s life? What would you tell them to look out for?
George: Mental and emotional breakdown is evidence of a curse. Making enough money to meet all your weekly needs and sufficiency’s and you still have to borrow at the end of the month is evidence of a financial curse. Accident prone people, people who continue to fall down and break things and continue to break the same arm, the same ankle, the collar bone constantly. Miscarriages not able to hold… your womb’s not strong enough to hold the deposit. Those are some of the evidences of the outright evidences of a curse.
Sid: What about things like sickness?
George: Absolutely and reoccurring sickness. You know curses are normally things that were spoken over your life.
Sid: What about just plain depression you don’t know why but you just feel depressed all the time?
George: Evidence of a curse a demonic force oppressing you to bring you into a place of demonic possession. We deal with it in this book.
Sid: What are some of the things that open us up to these curses?
George: Well false teaching opens us up to those curses. A lot of television programs that our children watch and that we listen to opens us up to curses…
Sid: I’m not sure I’m following you exactly what do you mean by bad teaching opens you up to a curse?
George: I believe there’s a true battle going on between the false church and the true church. The religious demons those religious forces that are alive and well. In 2nd Corinthians 11:15 the Lord begins to minister to us and tells us that there will be false ministers that will fashion themselves after the righteous ones but the end shall be according to their works. So we have people who minister to us, the ministry of fear, and they minister to us things that have to do with legalism and what have you. The eclipse the person of the Lord Jesus Christ and so although we are in a religious movement we’re not in relationship with God and this is Satan in disguise and it opens us up to demonic curses.
Sid: What about just a parent says to a child “You’ll never amount to anything. Your stupid. You’re going to spend your life in prison. You’re no good.”
George: I call those word curses: stupid, idiot, black, white, trash those kind of things. “You’ll never amount to anything” or “You’re just like your father and your father was no good.” You know things that were spoken over our life and I believe that that opens you up to a curse.
Sid: Well you know one of the things you said that is so powerful about, and I believe if you tell this story people will understand how powerful their words are. Is you were in 1997 in Durham, North Carolina holding a tent meeting. There were some people trying to stop the meeting and you made a mistake. What did you say?
George: I was having a tent crusade when our church began to open it was just forming. The housing authority and some of the preachers in town wanted the tent to be moved. They brought the media in and I told them I’m not moving you know the devil is a liar and I’m not moving. I had a stake in my hand and I held the stake up and I said “Only the wind can move me.” The next day a hurricane came and moved the tent.
George: I believe it was a curse. Proverbs 26 says “There can be no curse without a cause.” I believe a curse is a thing we speak but I realized I had spoken something and I challenged the wind and it came. So that same night we put the tent back up and our church grew from 4 people 1500.
Sid: Now the wind blew the entire tent down?
George: Not only did the wind blow the entire tent down there was a lady with a baby who was about 3-4 months old up under the tent when the tent blew down under this squall that came out of nowhere, this hurricane that came out of nowhere this down pour. She drops her baby when the tent fell in a puddle of water and the baby literally drowned in the puddle of water.
Sid: What a way to start a new church.
George: And they brought the baby into the trailer where I was at and the media had already gotten to the tent site because we had been battling in the media for the last 8 days and I was in the newspaper, so they were already there. There they were with the camera on the baby, baby’s lips was blue, mucus coming out of its nose, eyes closed, toes blue, and no breathing at all. The paramedic asks for the baby handed the baby to me as she was screaming and hollering “My baby! My baby! My baby!” The Spirit of the Lord spoke to me and said “Breathe on the baby and tell the baby to live.” I began to breathe on the baby (makes a sound blowing air), blow on the baby and I said “Live, live” and the baby coughed and life came back into the baby. The most fascinating thing happened to me about 2 years after the experience. I was in a church in Raleigh ministering and a lady came up to me and she says “Remember me?” I said “I think so (hesitatingly).” She said “Look at this” and the 2 year old baby came and hugged my leg (laughing). Life and death is in the power of the tongue.
Sid: That’s why those curses are so diabolical. The truth is George there’s so many books out on this subject why did you write a book called “Weapons for Warriors?” Why do we need another book?
George: Well there’s a lot of books out on spiritual warfare but they’re so spooky and they are pitched well and high over your head. I wanted to bring people back to the basic fundamentals…
Sid: Some of these books they go after demons, they explain it and… I agree with you it’s so complex you need a PhD to figure out how to get these demons. I don’t think these fishermen that were walking with Jesus had any PhD.
George: They didn’t, they didn’t. So I wanted to write a book on spiritual warfare that dealt with the fundamentals of it out of Acts chapter number 16. The apostles did 3 things:
- They preached
- They sang
- They testified
Acts 16:16 there’s a girl with a spirit of divination and she follows the men of God saying “You men of God will show us a way of holiness.” They turned and said to the spirit “Come out of her” and she was set free. They drew them into the market place to the magistrate rendered their clothes, beat them and put them in the inner prison. The Bible says at midnight they were singing and the jailhouse shook and the prison guard was going to fall on his sword and they testified to him “Do thyself no harm we’re all here.” So the preaching brought the girl to deliverance, the singing set them free, and the testimony set that young man free. That’s spiritual warfare: preaching, singing, and testifying. I wanted to give people an encyclopedia on deliverance with real experiences, real situations where they could apply it to their lives and get set free at the root, and pass it on to another brother or sister. That’s what this book does.
Sid: Mishpocha there are so many books on this subject and most of these books that you read they’re not practical and that’s what you’re saying George. They’re just not practical…
Sid: I have on the telephone from Springhill, Tennessee Gari DiStefano. Now Gari it was originally Goldberg from Long Island. Tell me about your Jewish upbringing.
Gari: Hi Sid I was brought up in a relatively conservative home on South Shore, Long Island and we didn’t observe many of the holidays. My parents spent a lot of time in Atlantic City but I knew that I was Jewish and that there was one rule and that I could not date a non-Jew.
Sid: Now you had one commandment so to speak did you violate it?
Gari: I surely did I found one non-Jewish boy to date and luckily his best friend was Jewish and he came to pick me up so my parents were fooled for a year and thought I was dating a Jew.
Sid: Now you actually changed your name from Goldberg why?
Gari: As a sales rep in New York I experienced a lot of anti-Semitism in the corporate world. When I could not get promoted in the various companies that I was employed because of my being Jewish I decided to change my last name to my middle name and therefore nobody really knew what I was.
Sid: Well in addition to not knowing what you was you still were I’ve got to use another Hebrew word in your words anyway a klutz.
Sid: In other words you had 2 left feet.
Gari: This is very true. I was very active physically I played tennis, I danced, I skated, I kept falling a lot I’d had a lot of broken arms I had a lot of broken toes.
Sid: A lot of accidents.
Gari: A lot of accidents throughout my life.
Sid: But the worst accident occurred in 1983, tell me about it in Fleshing, New York.
Gari: That’s correct. I was leaving my home and on my way to my chiropractor I actually thought my back was out and about 15 minutes later I was in a 1983 Toyota Corolla and I was crossing an intersection very busy intersection in Queens when a 1979 Cadillac flew by the red light about 80 miles an hour and broadsided me. My car broke in half completely bent got imbedded on her car. She dragged me diagonally across the road into oncoming traffic that was sitting at the light. So the car was bent in half and then crunched from the front. And I stayed awake during the whole thing it was very noisy, but unfortunately it’s not like TV where people are waiting in the wings to come flying out to help you. I think everybody was just stunned standing on the side of the road. It happened about 5:20 in the afternoon and if you know anything about New York there’s a lot of action on the streets at 5:20 in the afternoon. There were buses, cabs, people walking, a lot of cars and everything just stood still. Now I’m sure that in my mind things were happening very slowly, but it seemed that I accomplished an enormous amount of things in the few seconds that I realized that first of all I’d been trapped in the car couldn’t get out. The front of the car was on fire and at first when I saw the fire I thought “Oh I’m not going where I thought I was going.”
Sid: Where did you think you were going?
Gari: I thought I was going to heaven I didn’t think I was a bad person, I hadn’t murdered anybody.
Sid: So are you telling me you thought you were in hell?
Gari: Well I thought I was in hell at that moment.
Gari: And when still nobody was coming towards the car to help me get out and the realization that I was trapped, God in His mercy sent something adrenalin into my body and it surged upwards from my stomach and I had enough strength to push the door with the Cadillac embedded in it about 4 inches. In that instant I remember reading stories of cars that rolled backwards on people’s driveways and over a child and the mother came running out of the house and could actually lift the car. I understood in that moment what adrenalin allows you to do and I held my body and my right arm was dangling; I had broken over the steering wheel completely in half. So being a body builder I was very familiar with all the components in my body, and basically I felt like I had just been cut in half on the whole right side of my body was completely spilt. I got my body out of the car, I ran around to the other side I was married at that time and that man was unconscious. I opened the door I was able to get the door open on that side I carried him because he was unconscious away from the car. I laid him down and then all of the adrenalin started seeping away from me and I realized that I was collapsing inside. I did not want to lie down on the street so just politely walked myself over the sidewalk and laid down and fixed my dress really nicely and I realized I was probably not going to go home that night. I was not in control of my life anymore and it was a very overwhelmingly frightening thought.
Sid: What happened next?
Gari: Somebody finally came to me called the ambulance the next 5 days in the hospital I could write a book about very scary but I did develop my theory of why they called it practicing medicine. I figured if they knew what they were doing they would call it doing medicine.
Sid: I got the message.
Gari: Yeah it was very very scary. And after 5 days there where nothing had been done for me we got out of the hospital and got to an orthopedic surgeon who put a crevicular splint on my body and told me to go home and not get out of bed. And for 2 years I was basically horizontal.
Sid: What was really wrong with your body?
Gari: Two bones in my neck broke my clavicle split clear through, all my ribs on the right side were broken in half. My right arm got caught between the steering wheel and the dashboard and was like 6 – 7 times its normal size. Nervous, nerve damage in my right hand I had 2 of my fingers my pinky finger and my ring finger completely non-functional. And at that time we did not realize that my knees had also been crushed under the dashboard it wasn’t until 2 years later when I was actually able to finally get up that we realized that we had no cartilage in my knees and so I couldn’t really walk. So we had to get steel braces made for both legs…
Sid: Were you angry over this situation?
Gari: That’s putting it mildly.
Sid: I mean from what you tell me a bodybuilder and obviously very physically active this must have been hard to take.
Gari: I was furious I was so angry at the person that did this to me; I was angry at God even though I didn’t know God I just didn’t understand why…
Sid: Angry at life.
Gari: I was just angry.
Sid: And your husband and you began having problems. You wanted to just get out and you went to Florida what happened?
Gari: Went to Florida I’m so excited I figured the warmth would be wonderful for healing and did not realize that the humidity could kill you if you have arthritis and bursitis which I did in every joint. So it was a little bit of adjustment getting used to that. The weekend came and I felt its Florida I’m going to the beach. Now when you have as much metal on your body as I did you don’t want many people to see this. So I figured if I went to the beach really really early in the morning nobody would see all of my metal. So I went and got there I had at that point I had to leg braces, a back brace, a neck collar and 2 canes. But I was vertical so I was please with that part and I got to the beach and I got myself on to the sand very close to the parking lot, got all of my metal off put it in my little bag and proceeded to enjoy the sun and reading. As I’m sitting there I realize that the beach is getting filled up with really beautiful young woman I was very jealous, I was getting more angry with my predicament. And about this time a man walked up on to the beach and it was so interesting because he didn’t carry anything he just came and just strolled across the beach, proceeded to frolic in the water. I noticed over my glasses that he was checking every person out on the beach. And I thought “I have no chance of meeting this man because I’m crippled,” and I had such a poor self-esteem, I have a very poor self-image at this point and I stopped paying attention to him. A few minutes later a voice, a beautiful voice very European accent, is standing next to me and he said “Would you like to go into the water?”
Sid: It’s the guy.
Gari: It’s the guy.
Sid: Hold that thought we’ll be right back Mishpochah tomorrows broadcast.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest’s father was the devil. I’m serious. He has a new father now, God. And his passion based on his former knowledge is to keep you three steps ahead of the devil. You know, all of us have had real challenges in our lives, but John, you really had challenges. Your father practiced something called Santeria.
SID: Which is just a demonic religion I assume.
JOHN: Yes. It’s the number one demonic religion in the world today.
SID: And your father and your mother, constant turmoil. He used to beat her. But when you were eight years old your mom took you to a Tarot reader. What happened?
JOHN: My mom was going with my aunt and basically when I got there the lady, the witch that read the cards, she focused on me. She didn’t focus on my mom. She didn’t focus on my aunt. She told my mom that she saw in the spirit that I was going to lose my eyesight and if I didn’t get a ceremony done within the next 30 days I was going to be completely blind. So my mom panicked as any mother would and my mom allowed me to get the cards read. The lady read and they went on and a couple days later they initiated me to the dark side at the age of eight years old.
SID: And when at 13, you actually were willing or praying for your father to die?
JOHN: Yes. I remember my half-brother and brothers, and we would stay up all night, and he beat my mother all night long. So he would beat my mother all night. So we would be in the room. Sometimes we ran out of the room to try and help my mom [to keep him] from beating her, and he would throw us around, and then we’d go back into the room. And so one day I sat on the bed and started to pray, was just praying. I wasn’t even praying to God. I was just praying and saying, I hope he dies, I hope he dies. I hope someone kills him. And at the age of 13 years old, my father got shot at the age of 33, in the face, from a woman at a social club when he had a wife at home.
SID: Did you feel guilty about that?
JOHN: I was rejoicing, to be truthfully honest. I was rejoicing because I know the torment and the hate in my house, and the pain to go to school and put up a face as a young boy, and act like everything was okay at home, to put up a face and knowing that there was nothing but torment in my house.
SID: You began to really grow in the demonic and you, why did you feel Satan was your father?
JOHN: My father was a devil worshiper and that came from a generation of devil worshipers on my father’s side, generation to generation, Santeria, spiritualism, card readings, Palo Mayombe. Palo Mayombe is when you sell your soul to the devil and you make a contract with the blood, which I did later on in my years. And I would sit with the devil and speak to the devil all night long. I was going to demon church at the age of eight years from seven in the evening until five in the morning to be trained with principalities, demonic spirits, territory spirits. I was learning stuff in the spirit realm beyond the age of eight. So to me was, I told the devil, when you kill my father, you know, you can have me. So I told the devil, you can have me, and the devil said, I replace the old with the new.
SID: But God had a secret weapon, a beautiful woman and she invited you to church. What happened?
JOHN: Actually, she was a backslider. She was a backslider. So God got two for the price of one.
SID: So what happened when you went to that church?
JOHN: Actually, I went to the church. I asked the devil permission. I asked the devil, could I go to church. He said, “Go to church. People are weak. They don’t have no strength against us. They don’t have no power against us. You can go to church.” I was after the girl because she was a pretty girl and she lived in the neighborhood, so I didn’t have to move my car around, so we could go eat anywhere. So I thought that was a good deal. But you know, God was setting up a game plan, you know, for my life.
SID: You really got upset one time with the pastor. What happened?
JOHN: Well you know, the devil, I went to church a little too much without asking permission any more. And then the devil said, the devil showed up in church. In church, the devil showed up and I hear the devil whisper in my ear and tell me, “I didn’t tell you to come this Sunday. I didn’t give you permission to come this Sunday.” It was strange because the pastor did an altar [call] in the middle of the service. Usually they do that at the end of the service. So I got up. I said, well if I go by the pastor the devil won’t blast me. He will leave me alone. So when I went up, people came up to the middle, so I was one of the last ones to be prayed for. So I stayed here by the time he came. I didn’t want him to pray for me anyway. But by the time he gets to me he’s tired and the devil is gone. That was my plan. But when he came up to me, the devil possessed me right there, and I grabbed him by the throat and I picked him up in the air, and I said, “Today is the day you’re going to die.” And then all this foul stuff came out of my mouth and people jumped out of their seats, and I mean, big men jumped out of their seats, tried to grab me down and peel my hands off the pastor’s throat. He was turning purple.
SID: But he goes home and he prays a prayer, an unbelievable prayer. Listen to this. John cried out to God, “If you are bigger than my god,” with a small “g” although he didn’t know it at the time, “than my god that I serve, show me tonight or just leave me alone.” When we come back, we’re going to find out what happened from that prayer.