Sid: Now all this week you heard of an absolute miracle how Bridgette and Donald got remarried. Bridgette was actually in a church that was a branch of Pastor Gary Whetstone’s church. He’s pastor of Victory Christian Fellowship in New Castle, Delaware. There is an anointing on Gary and Faye’s life for restoring marriages and making marriages what God’s called them to be. How many couples would you estimate that were divorced that got remarried that were influenced by your teaching would you say Gary?
Gary: Well, I image there is at least over a hundred.
Sid: That is phenomenal, but one of the reasons your able to teach like you do on what a marriage should be, what God called a marriage to be is because if you thought it was a miracle that Bridgette and Donald got back together you haven’t heard anything yet. Gary would you tell us what happened with you and Faye?
Gary: You know Sid the thing that I believe is the most significant that happened is during our separation and divorce in 1975 God put in my heart, and during that time I wasn’t Spirit Filled but I got Spirit Filled and I recognized that God was able to reach me and to bring me into the power of God He could reach Faye and bring her into the same experience. And He began to speak to my heart to just give her everything that she asked for. I even paid for the divorce and while she was dating even my best friend that they’d go out and they’d have sex together and I would watch my two children while they could be together. And God began to I mean the pain that normal everybody would go through and all the normal anger and bitterness and hatred and all of that. God began to deal with my heart and show me that the love of God has the power to forgo any pain, any situation, any difficulty, any bitterness, any resentment, and to believe the best. And to trust that God would reach into that life and deliver and heal and restore.
Sid: And you know something I’m never going to forget, is at the divorce hearing you made a proclamation, would you repeat that.
Gary: Yeah, right at the divorce hearing I read the scripture that “If the unbelieving spouse leaves, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled unto her husband.” And so I brought to the courts attention that I will only permit her to be only married to me. So I brought the word of God to bear in our divorce.
Sid: You stated that and you actually said “You wanted that in the records, is that correct?”
Gary: Yes, we did we put it in the court record because I wanted it on record that the only thing that would happen in this marriage is that we would be restored.
Sid: Gary I know about the grace of God; I know about the love of God but for you to be able to love your wife under the circumstances of she divorced you; she is going out with another guy; you are babysitting to help her out. How did you do that?
Gary: See Sid the real of the love of God is not just a feeling, it has within it a total life commitment, that when the love of God is worked in your heart you are able to stand in the place of any pain and difficulty in life and know that God’s love has covered that sin and that they are freed of every guilt, every shame. And by so doing, I knew that God was going to bring her to salvation to the power of the Spirit and do a complete reconciliation in my life.
Sid: So you were looking at the end rather than the path to get there.
Gary: Yeah there’s no possibility of looking at the act of a person, you have to look at the fact that the love of God reaches all the way to the reconciliation of the end. That’s why Jesus is called the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. That even from the point when man sinned, Christ himself became the grace for all mankind even before he came to the earth. And that’s how the love of God is in us that we can see another sin and that love of God reaches all the way to the end of their restoration and their complete restoring of everything that God intended for them.
Sid: So your walking in the supernatural love of God. I assumed that Faye really didn’t want much to do with you initially, but when did you see that love starting to pay off?
Gary: Well, what would happen is I would just tell her constantly, she would say “Gary I hate you.” I would say “Faye you can’t hate me because the Bible says “Everyone that’s begotten of God loves them that are begotten of God, you’ve got born again you have to love me.” She said “That’s not what the Bible says.” And I said “No there is nothing that you can say that would ever defy what God’s word declares.” So what happened was the word of God prevailed, and one day while I was at work I heard the voice of God speak to me that “Today your marriage is reconciled.” I just saw inside of my spirit that I’d be taking my wife to a small prayer meeting that I was going to that night and that we’d be going out to dinner together and I just had that knowledge inside that when I came out to my car there was a note written on my window it said “Jesus had met me today, I did not go to work, would you take me to dinner and to that prayer meeting.” And exactly what God spoke to me He did.
Sid: Now paint a picture of where you and Faye today and this was the marriage that the devil wanted to see destroyed in the worst way and you can see why. Tell us what God has done through your lives.
Gary: Well, we’re married 34 years with 9 months off for bad behavior which we call it, but during the course of this last 22 years we have opened up almost 400 Bible Colleges around the world. We oversee 4 churches in the East coast here and the primary church we oversee has about 2000 adult members in it. And we have about 4,000 people that come to the church.
Sid: So someone says to you “You don’t know how awful my spouse is?” What do you say to them?
Gary: Oh, there’s absolutely nothing anybody could tell me that would compare. So there’s just Sid the fact of the matter that everyone’s that’s listening today whatever their primary complaint is the word the word of God has the absolute victorious answer to prevail in that situation. And no one has the ability to stop the word of God. If only one person will stand in that authority of God’s word they will see God’s word prevail.
Sid: And what would you say to some one that says “Yeah I know that’s true, but I just feel too sorry for myself?”
Gary: Well, I just tell them look Jesus never felt sorry for Himself, he took upon himself the sin of the world and that’s exactly what love does, love takes no account, no account of a wrong suffered. And you know I believe that self-pity is one of the greatest sins that holds us captive in our own heart. And we really need to repent of being hurt people. Because of all our hurt is the rehearsal of an injury of our own life that we have been ill- treated or spoken ill against. The fact of the matter is the same blood that forgave us forgave them. And no one has the right to hold anybody in the captivity or the bondage of another person’s sin. They all must be forgiven just as we are.
Sid: I have your series your CD series of “What God Has Joined Together” plus the workbook. Tell me when you teach on this subject or when someone gets this CD series what type of reports are you getting?
Gary: Well, we’ve had several thousands of these series sold and every one of the families that have gone through this for a pre-marriage couple it’s critical because it set’s the foundation for how God orders a marriage in fulfillment of it in every aspect.
Sid: You know the premarital counseling is a few minutes before the minister that’s going to do the ceremony and that’s like… I mean I wish I had had of course it wouldn’t have done me any good I wasn’t a believer. But I wish I had been a believer and I had the series before I got married I could have avoided a lot of grief. But who is this really for, whose it designed for?
Gary: It’s for every married family, every couple it’s for every single person, it’s for every person that’s going through marriage problems if they’re in a divorce if they’re in a single life and their looking to get married because it sets the course of how God has offered marriage to work. And it is not the traditional way of the normal church reality, it is the word of God that prevails and prevails in every intimate environment of life. The only thing I know Sid is the anointing that is in that series has delivered so many families because it just brings right into clarity “What do I do now?” And it is right there, the Word of God shows you actually what to do. I have a little statement I did a woman’s conference with about 5,000 women one time and one of the words that’s used in Christian traditions is a word called “Subject yourself.” And most people don’t know what it means and I said to this women group, I said “Now look what does it really to just duck and let it just hit the man.” And I just had all the women duck and it was about five men in the congregation and boy did they stand out like a well thumb and it just works.
Sid: For those that are listening right now, your married but it’s not a good marriage what difference would this teaching make Gary?
Gary: Well, it will open up their eyes to see exactly what to do to bring the healing and the restoration in that home.
Sid: I was explaining this week that we are coming into a new time in God, the most exciting the world has ever seen. The greatest move of God’s Spirit in history, I call it the One New Man move of God’s Spirit because it’ the merging the spiritual DNA in physical Jews that believe in Jesus, and the spiritual DNA in Gentile Christians to form the full dwelling place of God by His Spirit. I also explained Jews have been programmed, you can’t believe in Jesus and remain Jewish, but God has programmed a Jew to always want to be Jewish. So there’s kind of a Catch-22 going on. Then there’s fear among Gentile Christians of sharing Jesus with Jewish people, you might offend your Jewish person. Well I’ll tell you what, offend me, but at least tell me the truth about Jesus. I don’t want to spend forever separated from the love of God. You’ve got to tell Jewish people about Jesus, this is what you were created for.
I pointed out Romans 11:11 “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy.” That’s why I’m mentoring you. I find when I have meetings with unsaved Jewish people they don’t even know that I believe in Jesus when they come to the meeting. They just come for a flat lecture on the supernatural. The moment I open my mouth, and only God can do it I can’t make this happen, there is a corporate anointing and people are physically healed, and once they are healed, once they see a miracle, I mean why did Jewish people, thousands of them, flock to Jesus this obscure rabbi. It wasn’t because of His teaching, they would have never gone to Him and heard His teaching, as marvelous as His teaching was the reason they went to Him was because they heard this is a man doing Messianic miracles. The blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, and they came. Then He earned the right to teach and as He taught they fell in love with Him. That’s exactly the way we should operate today; demonstrate God’s kingdom with signs and wonders, and earn the right to proclaim the good news to Jew people. When proclaim it to Jewish people you open up a supernatural door to reach more Gentiles than if you did not go to the Jew first.
Let me read you a couple of scriptures from the One New Man Bible that I mean have been so significant to my life. First of all did you know that the Greek word for sickness can be translated evil? That’s what is done in the One New Man Bible. For instance, Mark 1:32 “Then as it became evening when the sun went down ending the Sabbath they brought to Him all those who had evil, and those who were demon possessed.” In other translations it says sickness. In other words, sickness is evil. Evil is something we have the signet ring of authority found in the book of Esther. Which was just like the king, anything… if you sign something with that signet ring it was just like the king did it. If you pray in the name of Jesus against evil it’s just like Jesus is doing that. If you could only grasp this, but there is a dimension in the invisible that is equally important to grasp, and the clearest picture I find in the One New Man Bible is Mark 11:22-24, let me read this to you “Yeshua said to them ‘You must have faith in God’” People say “Oh you keep preaching faith, well Yeshua said “You must have faith in God” by inference in God’s word. Here is the faith that you must have that Yeshua, Jesus, said you must have. Verse 23 “Truly I say to you that whoever” that means you “whoever would say to this mountain” that means speak it out loud “whoever would say to this mountain you must immediately be removed, and you must immediately be cast in the sea.” You see in the invisible world everything is done. We’re transferring things from the invisible world to the visible world. So you believe even though there’s a time element in the visible world, there’s no time element in the invisible world. So you speak as if your part is much in the invisible as the visible world. So you say “You must immediately be cast into the sea” and here’s the thing “and would not doubt in his heart, but would believe that what he is saying is happening. It will be to him because of this I say to you ‘You must continually pray for everything, then for whatever you are asking believe you have taken it, and it will be there for you.’” See you believe you’ve taken it if you have it in your hands, but God is saying “You believe you have taken it and it then it will be in your hands.” In order to reach into the invisible world you must believe you have taken it. We’ve been taught in a culture and a society that seeing is believing and God is saying “No My word is stronger than anything you can see with your eyes. My word you can snatch what you need from the invisible world.” God told us clearly sickness is evil, it doesn’t belong and some of us command that evil to leave and it doesn’t go, and we say “It didn’t work” then we just do plan B, C, and D. Well I’m in favor of medicine until the invisible becomes visible, but I have to tell you this whether you’re taking medicine, whether you’re going to a doctor it’s immaterial. What counts is believing it is done, “It is finished” as Jesus said. That’s the type of mentoring we want to do for you.
There’s something new that’s about ready to happen, it’s so new but I believe it. You see I’m doing the same thing that Mark told us to do. That Jesus explained… that Mark quoted Jesus said we were supposed to do. I believe it’s already happened I really do, and I have to catch myself sometimes. I believe that we have got our new It’s Supernatural television network. You see there’s new technologies out, we haven’t even purchased it yet, but I believe we have it already. This new technology of software and hardware is the best the world has ever seen. It’s everything you need to have your own network, and you can do it right on the computer to start. It’s going to be in high definition, do you realize I will be able to get on the air and I going to be able to say something live and you’ll be able to pick it up in high definition on your cellphone wherever you live in the world, live. I mean what technology we have for the last days.
I believe we’re going to start this network with the archives of our TV shows. You know we’ve been doing this so many years and our first TV shows are as anointed as our last. The last may look better, but they’re all anointed. Some of the greatest teachers of every aspect of the power of God of the fruit of the Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit the world has ever seen. Twenty-four hours a day right on your cellphone, right on your computer, right on your iPad, you can even get an adapter and put it right on your TV. Anytime you need a shot in the arm, anytime the devil’s battering you, you just play It’s Supernatural and the devil will flee as in fear. Then we’re going to put our prayer meeting on for you to join us, and then one add a time we’re going to add new shows, and then we’re going to put it on a satellite, and then we’re going to have it originate from Jerusalem.
I’m reminded of what Pat Robertson said in his biography “Shout it from the housetops.” God said to Pat “You’ve made mistakes in the past Pat, but you cannot make a mistake with Israel.” I believe that God gave Pat a commission to show the return of Jesus. Every eye will see it, it will be on every cellphone in the world. He’s given us that same commission, and we’re going for it.
See there’s a new move of God’s Spirit and there has to be a new delivery system and a new flock and group of programs.
Sid: I have on the telephone Jane Hamon. Jane is Pastor with her husband of Christian International Family Church in Santa Rosa Beach, Florida. I recently spoke there at a seminar, had a chance to meet her. Got a hold of her book “Dreams and Visions” and Jane had no way of know this but I guess I’m typical I’m very confused on dreams. I love the concept; I know it’s a Biblical concept but I need some clarification. Well this book helped me immensely and I want to get a little clarification for myself, but also for you because let’s face it. Every true believer has dreams, the issue isn’t whether you have dreams or not; the issue is understanding what these dreams are. Jane I have to tell you one of my great frustrations is I’ll have a dream and I’ll call a friend of mine who is known to have special prophetic understanding of dreams and I’ll ask them “What did this mean?” and they’ll tell me. But then I’ll call another friend who also has revelation knowledge of dreams and I’ll say “What did this dream mean?’ And they’ll tell me something completely different.
Sid: What is wrong with this picture? (Laughing) You know what I’m saying to you Jane because I’m reflecting what a lot of people that are listening to us right now are feeling. I mean if there’s one group of people that should not have confusion on this subject it’s believers.
Jane: That’s right.
Sid: So I want to… I pose that question, will address it a little later on but I want to go back a little bit about you. Now the things that I do know about you is you married into the Hamon family, many people are familiar with Prophet Bill Hamon because he’s sort of like a prophet, a father of prophets for many men and women around the world. Also you’ve been co-hostess on the 700 Club, and also most people might not know this and I’m sure other people have told you this when I was out at your church you prophesied over me. And I might add your father-in-law has also prophesied over me and outside of a female voice it could have been I mean it was almost like the same anointing the way it came forth. Has anyone ever told you that Jane?
Jane: Absolutely, they told me I prophesy a lot like him. I suppose that’s just the mantle…the same mantle being upon the two of us so.
Sid: Now take me back a ways; how does a young girl have such a heart for God that you get down on your knees and you cry out to God and you weren’t even raised in a Christian home?
Jane: Right, my family weren’t really church goers but from the time that I was about 5 or 6 years old I can really remember having a hunger and a desire to know the Lord. And from the time that I was 5 or 6 I would get on my knees every night and fold my hands like I’ve seen in the movies and pray to a God that I didn’t even know. And when I was about 8 years old I had a friend’s mother teach me how to pray the Lord’s Prayer and so I thought that was really exciting. So I came home and wrote out the “Our Father which art in Heaven hallow it be thy name.” And at 8 or 9 years old I was structuring a prayer life based on that prayer when I didn’t even know who Jesus was. And when I was about 12 years old I found an old family Bible so I started reading the big ones you know that sit on coffee tables with the big print.
Sid: The one that no one ever opens, sure.
Jane: Exactly the one that no one ever opened and I hauled that thing back to my bedroom and I started reading it and I read Genesis which was pretty exciting and I read Exodus which was really an exciting story as well. But when I got to Leviticus I thought maybe I had missed something because I didn’t understand that one at all.
Sid: You’re not alone. (Laughing)
Jane: I’ve been a believer for 35 years and I’m still not sure I understand it entirely. Then I found the book of Psalms which was a book of prayers and I began to pray the Psalms at 12 – 13 years old and it really strangely enough until I was 14 years old that I met Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. And 16 years old when I was filled with the Holy Spirit and felt the call to full time ministry.
Sid: When did you realize that you were prophetic?
Jane: Well, I think when I first received the infilling of the Holy Spirit I was around a very prophetic bunch of young people back in the ’70s. There was a coffee house ministry and they prophesied and they listened to the voice of the Spirit. So they kind of started teaching me a little bit about listening to the voice of God; how when we pray it’s not always about just us talking but that we have to actually stop and listen. So I practiced that from you know the early part of my Christian walk, but probably the first time that I experienced something that was prophetic actually had to do with God giving me a prophetic dream when I was 18 years old.
Sid: Out of curiosity before, I mean you were raised in a non-Christian home, did you have any ancestors that were prophetic or men or woman of God?
Jane: None that we can find. (Laughing)
Jane: None that we can find on really on either side of my family line; any that really understood anything of the Spirit. So I was the first probably of both sides of my family line.
Sid: So tell me about this first prophetic dream that you had.
Jane: Okay, the first time that I recognized that God was speaking to me in dreams; and the reason I say that is because I think that God is always speaking it is really a matter of are really tuning in and listening. When I was 18 years old I was away at Bible college and I had a dream that my younger brother got very sick and died. And it was one of those dreams that seemed so real that when I woke up from the dream that I actually had tears running down my face and I had to lay there for a minute and was wondering “Was that a dream or was that real?” You know I think other people have had that experience of dreaming so very very vivid and real. And so I kind of laid there in bed after I realized that it was just a dream and I just consulted myself with that. “Oh, it’s just a dream.” That’s what we’ve taught our children “Oh, don’t worry sweetie it’s just a dream.” And so I just laid there and said “Oh, it’s just a dream, it was just a dream” and suddenly the Spirit of God alerted me and said “It’s not just a dream.” And I had no idea at that point in my Christian walk that God would actually speak to somebody in a dream. So I got up and I began to walk the floor and I began to pray and cry out for the life of my brother who in the dream had died. And so after a while I felt the peace and went back to bed, the next morning before I went to school my mother called to tell me the night before my brother had been on a deep woods camping expedition when his appendix ruptured. And by the time they got him in from the woods and got him to the hospital he had almost died. And actually ended up hospitalized for a couple of weeks after that and that event actually coincided with the timing of my dream exactly.
Sid: And had you not prayed your dream might have not been fulfilled.
Jane: Very well might have, I believe that God uses us as intercessors and intercedes for His purposes on the earth. And I mean that was the first time and I was like wow, God spoke to me in a dream. And I thought well, maybe it’s one of those you know once in a life time king of things I still really didn’t realize that it was part of a believer’s walk that we should have that communion with the Lord to where He can invade our sleep and come into our dreams. I had a similar experience two years later over the life of that same brother believe it or not I dreamed that he was coming through an intersection and somebody didn’t stop at a red light; they hit him on the driver’s side of his car in my dream. That his car rolled over three times and he was immediately crushed and killed. I woke up and because I had the experience a couple of years before I knew I’m supposed to get up and pray. So I got up and I prayed for my brother, well the next morning on his way to school exactly like I had seen in the dream; he came through the intersection, somebody didn’t stop at the red light they hit his car. It rolled over 3 times but the difference was that my brother walked out without even a scratch on his body. And that helped me to really understand how many other times has God spoken to me in a dream and I didn’t recognize His voice?
Sid: Jane, what is the reason do you believe that God had you write this book “Dreams and Visions”?
Jane: Well, I think if we look in Acts Chapter 2 it says “In the last days God’s going to pour His Spirit out on all flesh.” And the results of that is going to be that people are going to begin to prophecy, they’re going to begin to see visions and they’re going to begin to dream dreams. And I know that since the Lord has been doing such a phenomenal outpouring of His Spirit that more and more believers are waking up to the understanding that when we receive the Holy Spirit we don’t just receive a comforter, we don’t just receive the gift of speaking in other tongues, but we actually receive a mantle of revelation. This mantle of revelation enable us to hear the voice of God whether it’s through prophecy, through visions or through dreams. And I found very very little that had been written on this subject that seemed to be Biblically based verses psychologically based. And so I felt like it was important to equip the saints to hear the voice of God so that they could begin to not just hear what God is saying but understand how to interpret it and how to respond.
Sid: Now is it true that many people that read your book then start not only dreaming more but getting prophetic understanding of their dreams for perhaps even the first time.
Jane: I believe that I’ve been told that many times when I teach on the subject of dreams and visions or simply when people read my book I filled in an email last night from somebody that just read your book and I’ve been dreaming every night ever since I read it and I just have some questions. People seemed to be awakened if you will, no pun on words, but awakened to the reality that God is speaking to them while they sleep or that they actually are receiving visions from the Lord because we’ve made visions something that’s very complicated almost like you have to fall into a trance or be caught up into the third heaven or something to receive a vision. Really it’s very simple is that a vision is simply God communicating to us in picture form. So we may be driving down the road and praying and suddenly we get a flash of a picture in front of our eyes and many times, I say many times not all the time, but many times that’s actually God giving us a little snap…
Sid: Jane we’re out of time…
Sid: My guests here in the studio are Michael and Cyndi Hinson from Gainesville, Florida. I’m interviewing them on Michael’s brand new book “To Heal the Heat” subtitled “Live Life to the Fullest.” As you know every week I have tools to mentor you with, every once and awhile there is a tool that is literally revolutionary that literally is… and by the way it’s not that it’s a new paradigm it’s an old paradigm; it’s from the Word of God. It’s just that there’s so many levels of tradition add to the Word of God that it’s very complex. Michael this is such a simple teaching yet it really allows people to live what Jesus said “We’re supposed to live the abundant life.
Michael: Yeah it contains revelation that can change the heart and soul; it’s truth that will enhance everyone’s life. Even if you don’t need your heart healed it can change where you are and bring about a glory that you have not seen before; a fulfillment a peace, a joy. Best yet, everyone we talk to tells us that it brings contentment to them that they have not experienced before.
Sid: You talk in your book about the power of words.
Michael: Words are probably one of the most powerful things, in fact the Lord made the world by just speaking it. The chair that your sitting in, the car that you’re driving now someone spoke it first and then it came into being. Our words carry the power of life, they can enhance and they can empower us; they can also bring death, they can destroy, they can kill. The Bible tells us “The tongue has power of life and death in it.” That life and death is not only in what we say but also in what others say to us and what others say about us.
Sid: You point out there is something about what we say but we don’t have control about what other people say about us, how can that hurt us?
Michael: Well, what other people say about us can stick on us. They can be the equivalent of a word curse; have you ever been in those situation where you feel like your prayers go over the ceiling where there’s something wrong but you don’t know what it is. And you can do a witch hunt; you can try to figure out whose saying what about this, that or the other. But the Bible doesn’t even go into that direction, and actually calls that kind of junk “Junk”; we’re not to do that. But if someone says something ill or speaks to you in a harsh word we’re to return with a kind word for it turns away wrath. There are things that we can do to keep ourselves for the sake of a better word, Teflon proof that nothing can stick on us.
Sid: I know I’m not supposed to gossip but sometimes I just feel like doing it.
Michael: Gossip is a deadly thing because when we pass it on to someone else what we’re judging about that person literally sticks to us with a measure we use unto others it is measured back unto us. So when we start gossiping and some Christians…
Sid: Are you telling me it’s a boomerang?
Michael: I’m not telling you it’s a boomerang it is a rubber band, it will not leave you it doesn’t go and then come back. It never leaves, as the words pass through your life will start to change; you’re setting in motion something within your own heart that will set the course of your life. Many of us don’t see it, if we had any idea of what our future would be because of the words out of our mouth we would change our words instantly.
Sid: You know many times we’ll say true things but they’re not what God wants for us and we’re just agreeing with the devil who’s trying to rob us of the future that God has for us.
Michael: Oh absolutely many of us pass on what I call Christian gossip; well it’s the truth and we need to know this about brother so and so, so that we can pray for him. Well, the truth is that doesn’t enhance or change our prayers.
Sid: But wait a second, is not only are we gossiping but we’re ending up to be a rubber-band, this bad attribute of this other person we’re just binding to ourself.
Michael: Whatever we judge them in, even though it is accurate, even though it is the truth, if it does not fix the problem; if it does not change the circumstances it does not need to be said.
Sid: Listen after understanding your teaching in your book I’m afraid to say anything about anyone. Now I have to deal with your chapter on fear. (Laughing)
Michael: Well the Bible says “By every word you will be acquitted and by every word you will be condemned.” Our words will show a picture of our heart. In fact out of the abundance of our heart the mouth speaks. So this is actually a picture of our own heart, we can use our words for us as a sign of the things in our heart that need to change. But equally if we’re caught up in these words that are condemning, if we’re caught up in words that are killing, or are harmful, or that are slander, or gossip then we are already deceived, we just don’t know it because we can’t see the truth in it.
Sid: Now do you see people whose lives are dramatically changed once they read the teaching on this and then pray that supernatural prayer at the end?
Michael: Absolutely, before we even wrote this we had a CD that we called word curses. We taught this for a long time and people got…we took the same prayer and put it in the book and we would see the countenance of whole congregations come. We’ve had pastors buy the CD and give them out to their congregation because of the change that it makes in their lives. They not only repent of what they’ve done it teaches them how to live without this being part of their life. Everyone completes the words, it isn’t what you say it’s the heart condition in which you say it. If you knew the damage it did not only to you but to your children you cease them immediately if they did not edify, confirm or correct God’s Kingdom.
Sid: So what do you do now everyone’s convicted what do they do?
Michael: They repent, you stop right where you are, some of us have done this out of habit, some of us have done it just because we’ve heard other people do it so we fall right in line; our mentor does it and so they tell us. And so we just go ahead and go along with them in suit but it’s the same kind of quality of life, it does not bring fullness of joy, it does not bring contentment and they never felt better after they gossiped at least not a few moments later.
Sid: How about if we were to pray the supernatural prayer right to those that are being convicted of what they’ve been saying with their mouth.
Michael: Let’s do that, just repeat this from your heart. If you are the person and you were saying words against anyone, and let’s take it one step further into the prayer. Some people have said prayers that hurt others, that have dishonored others who we’re supposed to give honor to. If we’ve dishonored our parents and other people have said words to dishonor our in-laws, which essentially are our parents. We need to say these same words, understand before we go any further, “Well I just said because I was angry, or I just said it because I was upset.” If you squeeze a grape then juice comes out, if you squeeze an orange that’s how you get orange juice. But when you squeeze you, and pressure is under you and things don’t go the way you want them, and you’re upset about things and what comes out of your mouth, what are the words that come out. That’s really what’s in your heart and in this all you have to do is repent and agree not to say those words again. Father.
Michael: Forgive me for the words that I have said that were contrary to Your Words..
Sid: Forgive me for the words that I have said that are contrary to Your Words.
Michael: Words that did not edify, confirm or correct.
Sid: Words that did not edify, confirm or correct.
Michael: Words that were gossip or slander or lies.
Sid: Words that were gossip or slander or lies.
Michael: Or dishonored anyone.
Sid: Or dishonored anyone.
Michael: Father I repent now in Jesus Name.
Sid: Father I repent now in Jesus Name.
Michael: And I will not continue in them.
Sid: And I will not continue in them.
Michael: I renounce these words in Jesus Name.
Sid: I renounce these words in Jesus Name.
Michael: And I will not repeat them.
Sid: And I will not repeat them.
Michael: Let’s take this one step further because they’re people that have said words about us whether they’re true or not they can equally cause pain to us, whether it’s through another party or to us directly. To get free of those so that they are no longer a part of us we need to forgive these people so let’s do that as well.
Michael: Other people said words about me.
Sid: Other people have said words about me.
Michael: That were not edifying.
Sid: That were not edifying.
Michael: That did not correct or confirm.
Sid: That did not correct or confirm.
Michael: And they were hurtful.
Sid: And they were hurtful.
Michael: Father that is sin.
Sid: Father that is sin;
Michael: Separate the sin from them.
Sid: Separate the sin from them.
Michael: And put it on the cross.
Sid: And put it on the cross.
Michael: I release these people of those words.
Sid: I release these people of those words.
Michael: Even now they are forgiven.
Sid: Even now they are forgiven.
Michael: Father have mercy on them.
Sid: Father have mercy on them.
Michael: In Jesus name.
Sid: In Jesus name.
Michael: Now what just happened is that some people that when you forgive others you actually release whatever they said against you. There’s no way it can stick; the Bible says “A curse cannot stick without a cause.” If you have forgiven them for what they’ve said there’s no cause for it to stick, if you’ve repented of whatever you did that caused it your free, you’re absolutely free and you can live in accordance with that. But there is one other thing I’d like to talk about since we’re talking about words.
Sid: What’s that?
Michael: There’s some people probably stuck in traffic right now or going down the highway and you complain about the circumstances you complain about whatever the situation is. People just naturally do it and they have no idea but they’re complaining about everything. That’s totally contrary to God’s nature and that certainly not out of a joyous heart. But you know what most people don’t like to hang around people who complain a lot they tend to bring people down. They already have something that’s draining in them already, for some people this is just something that’s just as simple as repenting. Father, I have been complaining a lot. We have a simple technique that’s really easy we’ll lead them in a prayer to do this technique. Repeat this, Father forgive me for complaining.
Sid: Father forgive me for complaining.
Michael: Your word says to give thanks in everything.
Sid: Your word says to give thanks in everything.
Michael: I repent.
Sid: I repent.
Michael: And I will no longer complain.
Sid: And I will no longer complain.
Michael: And from this moment on.
Sid: And from this moment on.
Michael: I will give thanks in everything.
Sid: I will give thanks in everything.
Michael: Instead of complaining about traffic this is a simple technique that we tell people, every time you complain about something find three good things to be thankful for. So you’re stuck right now so you can say “Father, thank You that I even have a car to drive, thank You Father that I a drivers license I can see the road. Thank You Father for any number of things that you can be thankful for this next breath, that you will get there God will protect you the rest of the way. A hundred things that you can find at any moment, that’s true when you walk in the house and it’s not as you expected start thanking God for everything. I found that people break this habit of complaining, simply taking a principal of God and start thanking in everything and you know what in a short time people we’ll go from not even liking themselves sometimes to finding joy and peace because they can literally see God in everything.
Sid: Now my guest is red hot for the Messiah; I know that because I’ve just heard his story. I’m red hot for the Messiah in fact you know Gary and my guest Gary Whetstone for most of my walk in the Lord I thought everyone that was a believer was like me. I mean I had such a radical experience and change of life experience with Jesus I knew the reality of the devil; I knew the reality of God and you the same. You had such a radical transformation and you were a dead man and you came back to life as far as I’m concerned, and the same thing is true for me. But you know I think everyone is that way and I’m beginning to find in this culture and this age that we are living in right now most people that say their Christians they’re not, you know all they are are church goers or their parents were Christian. And people need a lot of help.
Gary: They sure do and this is a time where were can be the greatest assistance to that cloak of darkness that has sub-squared the mind and the perception of people. People have come again to a spirit of bondage again to fear where they become more identified with what holds them than the Jesus and power that has released them. This day I’m telling you Sid there’s a word of the living God to your people “The people that are listing today, the word of God is speaking in my spirit with authority and I declare to you that the yoke of oppression, the mental derision that confusion and torment that has been assigned against you by the kingdom of darkness is banished in the name Jesus. I demand with the word of the Living God to cloak of mediocrity is broken in Jesus Name; I demand in the Name of Jesus the oppression that has bound people to indifference and passivity loose your hold in Jesus Name. I declare with the word of the Living God the rebuke of all oppression that causes man’s heart to coward in fear and I demand with the Name of Jesus and all power of His resurrection the Living God on the inside if arising in power and strength and I speak the release of that grace manifest in the children of God releasing them from all indifference and passivity to do the will and the purpose of God in this earth. And I decree it now, declare it now in the Mighty Name of Jesus.”
Sid: Well, I can feel the power on that but what was the transformation for Gary Whetstone, I mean he was going to literally have an electronic lobotomy have his mind reduced to a 3 year old through a series of miracles one after another. He had lost his wife, he had lost everything in life. So Gary gets divorced but then a major miracle happens and he gets remarried in ’76 to his wife Faye. He’s involved now in a multimillion business, he graduates Rhema Bible College. He gets an earned doctorate degree. I mean that’s what a real experience with Jesus is going to do for someone, a radical transformation. He’s now Senior Pastor of Victory Christian Church in New Castle, Delaware. Gary I am so concerned over there being a distinction between Christians and the world; right now there is not a distinction between the two, but there is coming a separation and one of the things that are holding most Christians back even real Christians by the way, is a spirit of fear. And I’m reminded of a scripture 2nd Timothy 1:7 “For God has not given us a spirit of fear.” So therefore if someone has a spirit of fear it’s not from God but and I believe the implication is “But’s God’s given us a Spirit of Power, a Spirit of Love, and a Spirit of a sound mind.” And that to me is what your series “Make Fear Bow” the book and the 4 CD’s will accomplish for people. Tell me how you originally started studying on fear and how this book came into being.
Gary: Sid I was pastoring the church and I took 2000 of our prayer requests, I was doing a prayer conference over in Earl’s Court in the Arena over in London. As I was preparing my heart for the prayer conference and teaching and training prayer I took these 2000 prayer requests and started praying over them from the local church that I pastor. I saw 80% of every one of the prayer requests were rooted in fear. I have an acronym that brings it to light it’s “False Evidence Appearing Real.” It’s information that is lodged into the mind and into the consciousness of perception whether it’s historic, trusting in the arm of the flesh, the enemy speaking, or some historic environment that they have become familiar to or participating with. And that fear ends up becoming the norm in their life and when I got done seeing that I went into that prayer conference and the Spirit of God spoke to me to research every cause of fear; all the affects that it has in the word of God; where it comes from, how it works in people, why does it work in people? What are answers that God has given to us so that we can conquer this ominous oppression. God’s declared to us that “We have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear, but one of power that we can cry out “Abba Father, Daddy He’s our God and experience the simplicity of His supernatural intervention in our life. We have seen fear bow in supernatural ways since I wrote the book.
Sid: Now you’re not just talking of a test tube type of environment like a college professor. You have had had death sentences declared by doctors over you. For cancer, tell me about one of them.
Gary: Sid just recently I have had, this was back oh was it 3½ years ago I’ m in Nigeria coming up a hill and I can’t breathe. I’m looking at a piece of property because we have Bible schools around the world and as I’m coming up the hill I’m motioning to a guy next to me to do CPR. So I fly back to America and I go to a pulmonologist and he says “Gary, you have lung cancer you have 3 months to live.” And this was 3 years ago, and I said “What?” I said “I don’t have lung cancer.” He said “Yes, you do,” and I said “No, I don’t.” I said, “Look I looked at the doctor right in the eye just like I’m talking to you, “ I said, “Look, I prayed, I saw my death, and this is not how I die.” He said “I need to put you on chemotherapy and radiation immediately to prolong this.” I said, “No, this is not lung cancer, I’m telling you, I know God I know my body, and I know what God’s saying, and this is not it.” So I got in an argument with a doctor. He says “Well, okay I’m going to have to do a biopsy, because you have such a restricted air flow on and on and on.” A long story short he goes in a takes a biopsy of it and it turns out to be a disease called sarcoidosis, and they found 80 tumors in my lungs, some the size of the end of my thumb.
Sid: Did I hear you say “Eighty, 80?”
Gary: Eighty-zero in the Steinem region which is from the center of your thorax down to the center of your stomach the media Steinem region and it was filled with these tumors but they weren’t cancerous. So I said to him “Why I told you I wasn’t going to die from it. But he said “Gary this kills you, you can’t live with this.” So they gave me steroids but I said “What does that do?” He said “There’s is no known cure for this,” So I get a hold of God and I said “God I saw my death, I refuse to accept a counterfeit.” You know the fear of death holds people such cowardess bondage they’re afraid of ask God to show them their death. I cannot imagine why, because death is just one step from one room to another in the kingdom of God is just that we shed this earth suit. Any rate so the next thing you know here it is three years later they do another CP scan on my lungs and now they’ve only found 2 the size of the point of a pin out of 80 they’re all gone but two little tiny nodules the size of a pinpoint. And I said you know, I went back to the doctor he said “You know you are the only white man that is in any record in this entire eastern region you are a test case and we have no reason or no cause or any possible reason why you didn’t die from this.” I said “Let me tell you, it’s because God showed me my death and this is not going to kill me.”
Sid: But you had a perfect opportunity to get into fear, you hung tenaciously on to the word of God you put that at a higher level than even the doctor it sounds like.
Gary: You know if you know what God has spoken, you know when Peter at the end when Jesus before He ascended He showed Peter the death He was to die.” So Peter saw it, he knew it so there was no possibility of the counterfeit. When they went to kill Jesus He walked thought the midst of them because Jesus time wasn’t yet. We are the Body of Christ Sid. Believers that are listening today you are the Body of Christ, you are not permitted to bow to fear and let the enemy use the False Evidence Appearing Real and bring in the torment of confusion and uncertainties and doubts and cripple you and defeat you by the influence of darkness. You were ordained by God to rise up in power in the name of Jesus and crush the fear that has tried to crippled and defeat you.
Sid: You know one of the things you point out is that when someone has an area of fear that’s actually there area that God wants to use them their strength and because they have that stronghold in that one particular area they’re not going to achieve their destiny.
Gary: Every time the enemy, the enemy knows fear is to satan what faith is to God. So if the enemy can put fear on somebody and that person conquers it through the love and the nature of Christ that testimony of conquering gives them the confidence to conquer every other area. Sid I’ve seen it working in finances, I’ve watched millions of dollars flow into my hands as I’ve conquered the fear of financial torment. I’ve watched people with blind eyes, God creating eyeballs as the fear of “What if God doesn’t show up and recognizing I’m the Body of Christ of course God is showing up.” You can’t send your body and the person not be there.
Sid: Gary you said over the last 10 years fear is nonexistent in your life, how would you like to be able to make that statement 10 years from now.