Sid: Well my guest is red hot for the Messiah. Well, let me ask you this “If God spoke to you and you’re a nice comfortable American happy where you’re at and tells you to go to Israel what would you do?” Well, Ron Cantor how in the world did God get you to go to Israel?
Ron: Well, it’s funny that you ask that. You probably don’t remember this Sid but we were part of the same congregation for many years Beth Messiah and we lived in the same area for many years. I remember one day when I was engaged to my wife Elana, Elana was born in Jerusalem, she’s a sabra a native born Israeli. When you heard that we were getting married you came up to me and you said “Ron, now you have to move to Israel you’re marrying an Israeli.” And I responded to you “No, I don’t think so I’m not moving to Israel; maybe I’ll visit but I had no intentions to moving to Israel.”
Sid: It’s a nice place to visit but I don’t want to live there. (Laughing)
Ron: Right and what happened to me I was actually reading a secular book a few years later by Thomas Freeman called “From Beirut to Jerusalem.” And as I read about his 6 years living in Jerusalem I fell in love with this people. Even though I’m Jewish I’m not Israeli by birth. I just fell in love with the character of this nation; it’s so unique and special. All of the stories he told I said “I have to be with these people.” It’s probably why I fell in love with my wife I love Israelis’. And so over the next several years we began to make plans to move here; it took us 12 years from that time in 2003 when we finally did make aliyah. For my wife she wasn’t making aliyah because she was born here.
Sid: And what is aliyah?
Ron: Aliyah, is a Hebrew word and it means to go up. So when Jewish person makes aliyah it means they return from one country to the land of Israel.
Sid: Okay, I also remember bumping into you in Israel and remembering because my sister and brother-in-law live there and you and Elana are close with them. And I remember you were wrestling with maybe you did but maybe you didn’t think about before you left and that’s the language of Hebrew. Tell me about your studies in Hebrew.
Ron: Learning Hebrew has been the greatest challenge of my life. I moved here at age 38, I’m now 48. My kids picked up Hebrew within a year and people under the age of 20 typically do pick it up very quickly but the older you get it is very hard to learn to learn Hebrew. I thought that I would take 2 years from ministry from 2003 to 2005 and by 2006 I’ll be preaching in Hebrew with no problems. But no it took me about 7 years before I gave my first message in Hebrew and I was terrified. Sid I preached in front of 100,000 people in English in Nigeria and I didn’t even think to be nervous but when I get my first message in Hebrew in front of 50 people who were Hebrew speakers I was terrified; I almost chickened out at the last minute and was going to grab an interpreter. But since then I’ve been preaching in Hebrew for the past 3 years. But I love Hebrew, I love learning it; it’s a great language but it hasn’t been easy.
Sid: I am sure. But tell me, between you and me. You go from the United States, a very comfortable land to Israel that in some senses is like the United States but in other senses it’s almost 3rd world. How was that transition?
Ron: It wasn’t hard at all, like I said “God had put such a love in my heart for this country.” I love the third worldness, if you will, of this nation. See on the one hand Israel is very much a first world nation I mean we have everything; every modern convenience that you have in America we have here. We pay at the pump, we have internet; we have everything. Much of the technology that it is in your iPhone, or is in your computer comes out of Israel and yet we’re in the Middle East. So even though we live on a first world level we have the mentality of a third world nation. And so when you combine those two it can be explosive. And I have had many interesting encounters in Israel; just going to the grocery store in Israel can be… I joke with people when they say “What’s different about America and Israel?” I say when I go to buy groceries in America I come home with groceries; when I go to buy groceries in Israel I come home with groceries and about 10 stories about what happened in the grocery store.
Sid: I know because I went to Israel for a month and we went to the grocery store and I felt as nervous as you as you when you preached the first sermon just trying to find the basics to live.
Ron: Right, right. And so we’ve gone through that. And if you get into the fast line where you can only have 10 items and you have more than 10 items you will be called to account. And I’ve had some of my most enjoyable moments watching Israeli’s argue with each other in the checkout lines in supermarkets. But it’s part of what I love about this nation. People are very honest in the sense of they say what they’re thinking; they don’t hold back. It’s a very aggressive, fast paced culture but it’s a lot of fun.
Sid: I have to tell you; you’re provoking me to jealousy and you’re Jewish, the Gentile supposed to provoke the Jew to jealousy not the Jew. But Ron you made a statement that Jesus never intended to start a new religion; what do you mean by that?
Ron: Well, when He came do we have any record of Him saying “I’m Jewish but I’m getting rid of this whole Jewish thing we’re going to start a new club called Christianity.” We don’t see that in the New Testament. In fact the word “New Testament” it came all the way back in Jeremiah to the House of Israel and Jacob “I’m going to make a New Covenant with you.” And so when Yeshua came he came to Israel to tell them about this New Covenant, not a new religion; a very much connected to the Torah and the prophets. And so when the Jewish people begin to hear this message all throughout Israel and became believers we don’t see them converting to another religion. When we read the Book of Acts we don’t ever see Paul or Peter speak to Jewish people about leaving Judaism they say “This is what has been promised; this is what we’ve been waiting for for 1000′s of years; on the day of Pentecost,” we call it Shavuot here. In Israel we see Peter preaching before several thousand Jewish people but never once does he invite them to join a new religion. He invites them to have their sins forgiven through the blood of the Jewish Messiah.
Sid: So what would you call Christianity if you had a chance to give it its name?
Ron: (Laughing) Well, I call myself a believer in the New Covenant they called it the way, haderekh we say in Hebrew. But wasn’t a new religion; the revelation Sid in this New Covenant and this was hidden for centuries was that Gentiles did not have to become Jewish in order to enjoy all of the promises, forgiveness of sins that the Jewish people were enjoying through Yeshua. As you know that was the main controversy in the Book of Acts; “Do Gentiles have to become Jewish in order to believe in Yeshua?” The Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 was to answer that question. But to contrast that to you and me; when you came to faith and I came to faith one of the first things that I said to myself was “I’m no longer Jewish.” After 2000 years of Christian anti-Semitism of Jews being forced to be baptized. We understood that as a Jew we can’t be part of this; but once I became to believe I thought I had lost my Jewishness. And that was until I met a woman named Viva, and she was the only other Jewish believer that I knew of. And I met her for the first time and I said “Viva guess what I also used to be Jewish.” And she put her bony little finger in my face; and she said “Don’t you ever say you used to be Jewish, you’re still Jewish.” Then I began to read the New Covenant and I saw these were all Jewish people. If you had told me growing up Sid that John the Baptist was Jewish; I would have thought “That’s crazy.” How can a Baptist be a Jew? I didn’t know who these people were. Or that Peter and Paul were Jews; Paul was a Jewish Rabbi; I had no idea.
Sid: Well, as a matter of fact the Bible says “My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge.” And what you have done; I’m not even going to give you the credit it for it Ron; because I believe it came straight from God. You have written a novel, the last thing in the world you would have done and this is a novel about a Jewish man that comes to faith; and is wrestling with “How could this thing become so Jewish? How could this thing be so Jewish and no one sees it?” Tell me about what you really want to accomplish?
Ron: Well, what we did we took this whole idea of the Jewish roots of the faith. I wanted people to understand that the Jews did not reject Yeshua completely. There was a revival in Israel; in Jerusalem; in the greater Tel Aviv area; which was called Yako. In the Galilee tens of 1000′s of Jews did believe, now the majority of Jews did reject Him but the majority of world has rejected Him. There was a great move of God here and these people did not leave Judaism. It says in Acts 21 when Paul comes to meet James in the other Apostles James says “Look at how man 10′s of 1000s of Jews have believed and they’re zealous for the Torah.” We wanted to get that across to people and we did it by creating a story about a man named David who meets and angel. And then he has a scrooge like experience and he goes back into the New Testament times and then the angel teaches him the Jewish roots of the faith.
Sid: And the facts, the story of course is imaginary, but the facts in the book; very few Christians; very few pastors; very few ministers have ever seen this before.
Sid: I am finding that the guests that I have on Messianic Vision and It’s Supernatural Television are handpicked by God to give you a certain portion that is not being taught properly in the churches that God wants His believers; His people to understand. I was just visited a church when I was on vacation a few months ago and I went into the upstairs of the church and there was an artist gallery there. And I saw a painting that so captured my heart. It’s a picture of an orthodox Jewish man at the Western Wall; Christian’s call it the Wailing Wall. It is the Western Wall, it’s the only thing left from the temple that we have. It’s considered the most Holy Place in Israel today and he has His hand touching the Wall. That’s his way of touching God but on the other side of the Wall you see Jesus and you see Jesus touching his hand, the Orthodox Jewish man and praying that the spiritual scales would come off. And I’m going to tell you we have put it in a beautiful frame and we’re making it available with the most unique book you will ever be able to read about Israel. It’s a fresh approach for the end-times that we’re living in. It’s called “Why Still Care About Israel?” I promise you you will have questions this book is going to answer. And you will have friends that are going to have questions this book is going to answer. The research was done by a Messianic Jew from Israel who happens to be an attorney; she has dual citizenship. She’s American as well as Israeli, Sandra Teplinski. Sandra let’s get right into some very very basic things the Abrahamic Covenant. Many are saying that it is conditional. What is the Abrahamic Covenant; why is it important and why is it unconditional?
Susan: The Abrahamic Covenant Sid as you know begins in Genesis 12 verses 1-3. Most people are familiar with that passage. God tells Abraham to leave his country; go to a land that God will show him and then promises that He will bless Abraham and make his name great. And that God will bless those that bless Abraham but whoever curses him God will curse; yet all peoples on earth will be blessed through Abraham. Now time goes on and Abraham approaches God at one point in Genesis 15 and he has no children and he hasn’t settled in the land. And he asks God “How can I know that I will gain possession of this land?” God answers him an extremely unique way. What He does is He instructs Abraham to slaughter and to sacrifice different pieces of animals and to lay the cut up bodies on the ground. Then God puts Abraham into a spirit induced sleep and God Himself, according to the scriptures, passes as fire between the pieces. This ritual would sound strange to us in the 21st century was actually the identical procedure used in Abraham’s day to formalize a legal covenant. Animals were cut up covenanting parties would walk between the pieces in order to promise that the oath to one and other would be performed. But what is especially important about this transaction with Abraham is that Abraham did not walk between the pieces only God Himself as Holy Fire walked between the pieces. What that meant according to the laws of the day is that the covenant that was being made between God and Abraham was unconditional. Meaning that Abraham would not have to do anything in order for the covenant to be fulfilled God was the one who would do it all. The unconditional nature of the Abrahamic Covenant should demonstrate to us one of God’s most supreme acts of mercy and grace because through Abraham all families are blessed. God’s blessing of the nation of the Gentiles into the Jewish rooted household of faith into Covenant with God is by mercy and grace. So that’s why we can see that Abraham and his descendant’s sin. They don’t always follow; we don’t always follow the Mosaic Law let alone God’s New Covenant words. But by mercy and grace God has promised on His word alone that He will fulfill and bring to completion His promises to Abraham and Abraham’s descendants Isaac and Jacob. Later on in the Book of Genesis chapter 17 God promises that Isaac will inherit the Covenant and specifically not Ishmael, although Ishmael will get blessed, and that Jacob in Genesis 28 will inherit the Covenant and not Esau.
Sid: And of course these are the father of the Arabs will not inherit it and that the Jewish people will. How does Galatians 3 tie in with that?
Susan: Well Galatians 3 confirms what God did in the Book of Genesis. Galatians 3 says that “The promise that God made to Abraham came before the giving of the law and therefore cannot be altered by what transpires in connection with the law.” More simply put it means that if the Jewish people sin God’s Covenant with them through Abraham; Isaac and Jacob still stands.
Sid: Speaking of still standing just the Genesis 12:3 where God says “I’ll bless those who bless the Jewish people. I will curse who curse them.” Tell us a little bit of history of nations that have gone against the Jew in Israel and what’s happened to them.
Susan: Well we see that the blessing and curse verse actually goes into effect almost immediately when Abraham deals with King Abimelech in Egypt. Abimelech if first cursed and then blessed on account of his treatment toward Abraham and Sarah. And we can follow that trend through the scriptures, but in post Bible history we can trace how nations sadly have more often cursed then blessed the Jewish people. And how that has been seemingly connected with their down fall soon thereafter beginning with the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire after it overtook Israel began to enact virulently and violently anti-Jewish and anti-Messianic Jewish laws not long thereafter the Roman Empire fell. We can go on in history to the crusades sponsored mostly by England and France. Dispatched by Popes they dispatched their soldiers down to liberate Jerusalem but liberate almost unfortunately almost meant liquidate multitudes of unarmed Jews and Muslims along the way. Well, shortly after that England and France turned their weapons against each other in the 100 years’ war. Then we can go on to the Golden Age of Spain where many many Jewish people found refuge for 100′s of years. Then as you know with the Spanish inquisitions in the 1300 or 1400′s Jewish people in Spain were forced to either convert or leave the country. Shortly after that the Spanish Empire fell never again to be resurrected in history. Then we had the British Empire; many many Jewish people found refuge in the British Isles 100′s of years ago. And as long as England treated the Jewish population well things went well for her. The empire expanded it was said that the sun never sets on the British Empire. But then England sadly made decisions that turned against the Jews; that turned against Israel in particular. Because England played a key role in the restoration of Israel as a nation state. But was not sadly always faithful to the responsibility given her and shortly thereafter the British Empire fell apart. Then we go on to the former Soviet Union which treated the Jewish population there very cruelly. Shortly after there was a prolonged campaign by the west for the USSR to allow the Jewish population to immigrate and to loosen its grip on the Jewish People. The Soviet Union became the former Soviet Union when it imploded from within.
Sid: And how about Germany, when they turned against the Jew with Holocaust?
Susan: Well Germany certainly suffered greatly but thankfully a critically mass remnant of sincerely repented afterwards and had blessed Israel. And as you know Germany is relatively prosperous among western nations today and doing fairly well.
Sid: So that Genesis 12:3 “I will curse those that curse the Jewish people;” we saw Germany cursed. And then they turned around to bless the Jewish people and then we saw Germany blessed. Now what about all the turmoil going on in Arab countries now? What’s causing all that?
Susan: Well, I think that we have to say that one reason is that from the beginning Arab Muslim nations of the Middle East and North Africa have all cursed the day of Israel’s rebirth. They continue to this day to issue curse upon curse over Israel and Jewish people worldwide. And that’s a good part of the reason why they’re in the condition that they’re in.
Sid: I have documented through friends of mine and actually you cover this in your brand new book because it’s just so well documented. That every time the United States as a nation goes against Israel there’s either an economic judgment or a catastrophe of an Earthquake or a tornado or flooding. I mean it’s the most phenomenal thing and no doubt the reason the US is the most blessed country in the world is we have been a friend from the very conception of our country Israel. But this works for families too.
Sid: My guest Pastor David Jones February 2012 he had an open vision on what the Bible refers to as the Day of the Lord. There’s not a whole lot of teaching about the Day of the Lord. There’s not a whole lot of mention of about the Day of the Lord except in the Bible. But David found himself in this open vision observing people, and describe one more time for me David when the people the terror on their faces and they’re so caught by surprise not thinking that this would come.
David: It was like all the talk about Jesus is coming, Jesus is coming all this talk it has finally happened and it’s happening right before our very eyes. They were in total disbelief, they were in total shock that all of these years of going by saying “Jesus is coming” it has come and everything was so happening so fast Sid that they couldn’t even think straight. Things was happening so fast that it was total perplexity, total horror, total terror in everyone’s heart.
Sid: Now, the thing that got me is the people said “I thought I had more time.” Well, describe their faces when they said that.
David: It was just total interruption in their lives, their life had been interrupted and now he’s facing the Mighty God, now he’s facing the Lord Jesus coming so speedily and he thought he had more time. And that’s what a lot of people are saying “Oh, I got time I’m still young.” But the Bible says “Serve the Lord in the days of your youth because the evil days are joining now. Remember your creator in the days of your youth.” It caught him totally off guard.
Sid: Okay, you had this open vision, you’re now alert, you’re now processing to the best of your ability what just occurred. Tell me… you had said the first thing that you did was pray for yourself. What do you mean by that?
David: I could sense and feel what everyone was feeling even though I was hovering about 200 feet in the air.
Sid: You actually could feel their feelings?
David: I could feel their feelings even though I was there but I wasn’t a part of what was happening He was just showing me everything. He was just like He catapulted me right there but I sensed and feel everything such horror. So those emotions were still on me and I begin to search my own heart. Sid I know I’m saved, I know that I’m filled with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in the heavenly language as the Spirit of God gives utterance. BUT! I had to search my own heart, I didn’t look at my wife, my children. I start searching my own heart and I start saying “God forgive me for all trespasses and sins; forgive me for confessed sin and un-confessed sin. God forgive me God; I want to be counted worthy to go back with You; please Lord!” I begin to look at my own humanity.
Sid: Now as your repenting before God God showed you you were supposed to be praying for a particular group of people. For pastors, why would he have you praying for pastors?
David: Because the pastors are the voice of God; they are the spokesmen of God. They are the ones that preach the gospel or suppose to preach the gospel and give people the whole truth. And the Bible says “You shall know truth and the truth shall make you free.” Only the truth that you know, and God is holding all pastors, apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers responsible for giving people the truth. A lot of time people are bound in their heart and in their mind and in their soul. But when they hear the truth freedom comes, deliverance comes.
Sid: Now after that vision you began to research what the Bible has to say about the Day of the Lord.”
Sid: What did you find?
David: I found in the Book of Joel the 2nd Chapter God begin to give me scripture and it reads as thus “Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion.” And that’s what I’m doing right now on this radio show. “Blow ye the trumpet of Zion, sound the alarm in My holy mountain; let all the inhabitants of the land tremble for the day of the Lord cometh for it is now at hand; a day of darkness and a day of gloominess and a day of clouds and thick darkness as the morning spreads upon a mountain; as a great people and nation strong. There has never been any like neither shall there be any more after it. Even the years of many generations of fire devoured before them. And behind a flame burneth and the land in the Garden of Eden and before them; and behind them a desolated wilderness; yeah nothing shall escape them. The appearance of them is as appearance of horses and as horsemen so shall they run. Like the noise of chariots on top of mountains they shall leap; like a noise of a flame; like fire devoured the stubble as a strong people set in battle in array. Before their faces shall be much pain; all faces shall gather blackness.” This is what I’ve seen upon the faces of the people, total horror. “They shall run like mighty men, they shall climb the walls like men of war. They shall march everyone on their way; they shall not break their ranks neither shall one thrust another. They shall walk everyone in his path when they fall upon this sword they shall not be wounded. They shall run to and fro in the city, they shall run upon the walls; they shall run upon the houses; they shall enter into the windows like a thief and the earth shall quake before them and the heaven shall tremble. And the sun and the moon shall be dark and the stars shall not withdraw their shining. And the Lord shall utter His voice before His army, for his camp is very great for He is strong that executeth His word for the Day of the Lord is great and very terrible, who can abide it?” That’s just one scripture, do you want more?
Sid: I’ll tell you what I want to know is shortly after you had that open vision I had an amazing dream from God. And in the dream God spoke to me and He said “Three times I’m coming back soon, I’m coming back soon, I’m coming back soon.” Now I have to tell you I knew that it was possible for Him to come back soon, but I didn’t really believe it was going to be so soon.
Sid: And between your open vision and what I heard, what has God called you to do with this vision now?
David: He told me, I charge you. He gave me a charge to warn all mankind that “I’m coming, that I’m coming, that I’m coming.” And Jesus said “I’m coming in an hour and at a time when man least expects it. And if Jesus said He’s coming in an hour and at a time when man least expects it. Sid it’s going to be exactly that at an hour and at a time when man least expects it!
Sid: Now when you share your vision before people you tell me that people start wailing and tell me the reaction of people when they hear this with the presence of God and the force of God behind this vision.
David: They start wailing and screaming, they start wailing and screaming. I didn’t understand it at first. And I began to inquire of the Lord I said “God what’s going on; why is people wailing and screaming and men screaming like women. I said “I’d never seen them, like big football players just wailing and screaming and running to the altars.” And He said “Didn’t you wail after you came out of the vision?” I said “Oh my Lord yes I did, I wailed and travailed,” I wailed for 2 hours. God had me praying for preachers all over the world the proclaimers of the gospel of the good news. And as the people began to wail and scream strong conviction came upon their hearts, strong conviction of repentance. What is repentance? A change of mind and action.
Sid: Most people don’t even hear messages on repentance; they hear messages and rightfully so, on the wonderful grace of God. And rightfully so, but they don’t hear about repent… John the Baptist message, repent of your sins!
Sid: Why is that?
David: That’s a good question, even Jesus and John the Baptist came “Repent ye for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” And when they asked Peter and the rest of the apostles “What shall we do?” He said “Repent ye. Right now.” Number 1 repentance, a change of mind and a change of action. If you don’t repent there’s not… I mean true repentance is a truly a change of mind and action; you go another way. Sid let me show you a New Testament scripture about repentance and the Day of the Lord. 2nd Peter 3:8 “But beloved be not ignorant of this one thing that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years; and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promises as mean count slackness, but is long suffering to us-ward and willing that any should perish but all come to repentance. But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt with a fervent heat. The earth and all the works shall therein shall be burnt up.”
Sid: The Bible says “He who wins souls is wise.” The truth is very few Christians do this; this is a New Year’s Resolution for you I want you to take souls to heaven…
Sid: I’m speaking to a couple that are red hot for the Messiah Pat and Patty McEnnerney. I’m speaking to them at their home in Casa Grande, Arizona. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that Patrick came from a real dysfunctional family. He was an alcoholic; he was addicted to drugs; his wife was at the end of her rope. She literally gave up and she said “God I just give up he’s in your hands.” And the power of God came on her so strong and she was literally pinned to the ground. And afterwards Patrick you looked in her eyes and you saw a love that you’ve never seen before. And then you had an auto accident and if you’d continue at that point.
Pat: Yes, I was coming home late I’d been drinking and using narcotics and I blacked out. And I know that the Lord had an angel in that vehicle because I wouldn’t be here speaking had He hadn’t intervened with a grace by sending an angel. But I had blacked out driving my plumbing truck home and was going off the road when I was shaken violently. Before I drove off the road I had crossed in the right lane on to the left and I was violently shaken and as I immediately came to, and my head was clear. And I cried out “Oh Jesus” and slammed on the brakes and had left the left lane and ran into some big 8 x 8 guardrails and the top timber broke off. And I remember it broke off and I remember everything went into slow motion as this huge timber came right at my head right at the windshield. And it hit the windshield the most amazing thing, it took a chunk out of it it did not crack it. And it went up over and the lower one on the guardrail went through the exterior of the vehicle, the fender and would have taken my leg off. The truck came to a stop; and I leaped up out of my chair and I turned around immediately because I needed to know who shook me I knew that nobody was in the vehicle. I jumped out of the car and obviously I was very inebriated when I left and I don’t recall all the narcotics I used but I was totally in my right mind when the vehicle came to a stop. And so I drove home and early that morning the Lord came to me and woke me about 4:30 – 5:00 AM. And I saw my life…
Sid: Excuse me, He came to you; He woke you. What did He look like a person, was He shadowy; what was going on?
Pat: Okay, He spoke to me. His presence filled the room and there was this tremendous conviction of my sin. Now I didn’t see in the natural at this point because if I could have found a rock to crawl under I would have. I was under such conviction of my sin and I saw my life from my earliest time into the present past before me. It’s a hard thing to explain; it’s a hard thing to explain.
Sid: I’ve heard many people say this that they see their life but did it happen in an instant that you see it or did it take a period of time?
Pat: Well, I think that you can’t measure it in time; it was an instant but yet it seemed like it wasn’t. Does that make sense, it was supernatural. It’s like God shut the time off and let me review my book. And what I saw; I mean in His presence I had nothing to say. So I couldn’t believe it though. I mean my mind could not grasp; and the Lord told me that I was an addict and alcoholic. And this might sound funny to many but sin has a way that hardens you to the point that you know not; and I didn’t realize truly that I was an alcoholic or an addict. Now my wife knew this of course and probably others but that was news to me. The Lord said “If you do not turn I will take your life and you will burn” and He was giving me a choice. Now I just accepted the Lord and I was struggling with these things and I really had no knowledge of the gospel. But there was two scriptures that I did know and one is that it says that God is not a liar, but man is. And I remember after the Lord speaking to me and this happened 3 times before I slid out of the bed. I actually saw my life pass before me and 3 times God said “If you don’t turn I will take your life from you and you will burn.” And I pondered this scripture that came to my mind. God is not a liar and I heard myself say “If this is true then I am the one that’s deceived and the liar,” and I slid out of my bed. The other scripture that came to me is “God is faithful to forgive all those that cry out in the Name of Jesus.” All those that cry out in the Name of Jesus will be saved.” And I started to call out and instantly the Lord spoke to me and I jumped up because I felt His presence in the room. And as I jumped up and turned around I had an encounter with the living God; it was like I entered into the Body of Jesus and I looked at myself through His eyes. I saw the love that I saw in my wife; but I saw that for me. And I had no understanding of such great love that God has for us individually; it’s an individual thing. Yes, it’s corporate but we must receive it individually and at that moment I knew that He loved me. And it was beyond any human love and at that very moment I said “Lord.” I was so overwhelmed and then I saw through the eyes of God the grief and the pain that He had because of my sin. And it was repulsive, it was like it was putrefying and in that moment I just cried out again “Lord, in Jesus Name forgive me.” The moment I did I fell to the floor, the power and the presence of God overwhelmed me and I hit the floor like a sack of potatoes. The Lord reached down and laid His hand upon me. And He says “Son, not only have I forgiven you and redeemed you, and healed you and delivered you but you will never again dabble with drugs and alcohol.” And He said “I have set you free.” I stood up again, and I don’t know how long that was maybe 15 minutes; I was sobbing, laughing, crying. And through my hands up in the air and I was shouting (Laughing) and my wife heard all of this commotion you know. By this time she had gotten up and she had been downstairs; I think that she’d probably gotten up early in the hours after I came home. And she went downstairs to sleep on the couch and she come running in the room. And I was weeping, laughing, crying and shouting that I had been saved. You know I was already saved but I wasn’t delivered. But at this point I was totally delivered.
Sid: What do you mean totally delivered? What happened to the alcohol and the drugs?
Pat: It left, it was a demon.
Sid: It just instantly left you?
Pat: Instantly left me; and you know that’s what the word says. (Laughing) We don’t have to go through months or years of trying to dry out or walk the rest of our life as a dry drunk or dry addict. When God says He will redeem you and sets you free He means it; but it must be spoken by faith in those that believe. The anointing, His presence, everything happens in His presence. Salvation happens, the raising of the dead, the blind see; the lame walk…
Sid: Patrick you talked about something that is critical in the understanding of how God uses you in ministry now. You talked about God’s love, Jesus’ compassion; why is it most of us can’t, or don’t, or won’t walk in this?
Pat: Because Paul said at the end of his ministry, he said “All have left me, none follow me Christ crucified.” Oh they love Christ but they don’t like crucified. God won’t accept anything on the altar. He doesn’t want 99.9% of you He wants all of you.
Sid: So if someone is doing something that is sin but not a bad sin in saying “I guess it must be okay because I haven’t gotten a telegram from God to stop it.” That’s the type of thing that God’s talking about; God’s not going to give you a telegram on what you know yourself to stop.
Pat: That’s it; it’s deception and every time we say no to God and don’t obey our heart becomes hardened. Eventually He turns you over to your own desires and that is destruction. Sin does bring death, but God is longsuffering and His love endures forever and His compassion is deeper than the understanding of man’s mind or intellect. But He’s not forgetful and He knows all those. He knows our heart; this is the great thing is God knows our heart. He does not require from us perfection, His son was perfect for us and this truth that really has empowered our ministry it’s God in us. He will use anybody, God’s not a respecter of person. Oh! This is the good news of the gospel; come as you are. But what most people don’t do is that they don’t say to the Lord “Change my heart.” Because many of us blind, deceived are in love with sin; we have our pet little sins. And sin is sin; God doesn’t have a stepladder. We won’t enter the gates, it’s a narrow gate, it’s a simple but narrow gate.
Sid: But beyond that I believe where we are in history that God is giving anointing’s to people right now. Giving ministries to people right now and people are holding on to the toys of this earth are going to miss their destiny.
Sid: If they don’t realize the hour that we’re living in right now.
Pat: That’s true and if I may say this, God is giving me a word that I’ve been preaching, and ministering and prophesying for a year. That there’s a new generation…
Sid: I’ll tell you what stop for a minute I hate to do this but I must do it. We’ll pick up right here on tomorrows broadcast.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Doug Jones; he’s been an instructor at Rhema Bible School for over 20 years. He has spent 9 years heading up their Healing School. He’s got insights into healing in the last few days we’ve been talking about a dimension that very few in what are called word of faith teaching have opened themselves up to. And that’s yielding to the Spirit of God that may make no sense; may go against everything that you’ve ever thought but would be the key to open yourself for a healing. But Doug there’s another side; let’s talk about that today; the faith side.
Doug: Yes, there is the faith side. There is Holy Spirit side and we need to be sensitive to the Spirit of God as we maneuver our way to eradicate the diseases out of our bodies. Sid I want to say this too before we go on to this faith side issue. Spirit of God can also lead you about medical physicians. We’ve actually had in our family where my wife just something wasn’t right about a particular physician and we actually switched doctors as a result of it. And we come to find out that that was a Spirit of God leading her and guiding her. And so we encourage people to seek medical assistance and to seek physicians helps. But we still need to be lead by the Spirit of God and lead also while we’re hearing the word of God that maybe the Spirit of God can tweak some of our beliefs so that we’re in proper position. But there is another side that we need to consider and that is that if we’re not getting anything from the Spirit of God; if we’re not hearing anything from the Holy Spirit about our situation we can take the word of God and we can believe the word of God and use our faith to receive healing much like the woman with the issue of blood. “Daughter they faith has made you whole.” Because much like the man being let down to the roof in Luke 5 “And when He saw their faith.” So there are certain things then that we have to have faith in. And we talked about it on our Monday’s program Sid that we need to have faith first of all to be well and that God’s a giver. And that God gives you hands but the issue that we want to focus in on today is “What does God give the sick when hands are laid upon him?” What I’ve discovered is this Sid is that when most people when they step into a prayer line the number one thing that they are looking for is their manifestation. And so when they don’t get their manifestation then they walk away from the prayer line disappointed. It’s almost like a little boy you know at Christmas time he’s got his heart set on a BB-gun. Well when he doesn’t get his BB-gun he treats with disrespect what he does receive. The moment that you have hands laid upon you; the moment that that occurs in your life the healing power of God is administered to your body. What does God give to the sick?
Sid: And by the way I have to emphasize clearly; don’t listen through filtered lens on what Doug is about ready to say. There are those that are listening to us right now you have had hands laid on you by the greatest servants of God on the face of this earth. And everyone you walked away; you might have felt something; you might not have felt something but you walked away, you examined yourself, you saw that you were not healed and your faith level is -zero right now. Please listen.
Doug: You are exactly right; many people have become frustrated because they have misinterpreted what God gives to the sick when they’re prayed for. We thought that it’s been manifestation but what He gives to them is healing power. I can not, I can not testify to the amount of times that I heard Brother Hagin say these words just before he would lay hands on them. “The minute I lay my hands on upon you the healing power of God will be administered to your body but what you do with it after that is up to you.” And I thought to myself as I watched people walk away from that prayer line “They didn’t hear what Brother Hagin said.” He said “The moment I lay my hands upon you the healing power of God.” What does God give to the sick when hands are laid upon him?” He gives them healing power; now what I find interesting is that for the last 30 years we’ve had a tremendous display of God’s healing power being administered to people’s lives in prayer line after prayer line; after prayer line. I can’t tell you how many people we have seen fall under the power. They actually have had hands laid upon them and they fell on the floor as a result of the power of God. There are individuals today that have actually felt the healing power of God go into their bodies. I’ve heard people refer to it as just a warm feeling just went all over my body. I’ve heard other people say “It’s like electricity.” The healing power of God is being so administered to people’s lives that they’re falling out as a result of it; they’re feeling it coming into their bodies. There are actually ministers today who feel the power of God go out of their hands.
Sid: I can tell you as a fact I have prayed for many people and I know, that I know, that I know, that I know, that I know, that I know that they’re healed because I can feel the healing power of God going out of my hands into them and they’re not healed.
Doug: They’re not healed because see you have to Mark 11:24 says “You have to believe that you received; believe that you’ve received.
Sid: And we’re faked out because we believed it if the symptom has disappeared.
Doug: Yes we are; the healing power of God is what is administered first and we must believe that that healing power is administered to our bodies and then begin to release those beliefs with our words. And that power is given time for it to work within our bodies. The moment that the woman with issue of blood in Mark 5; the moment that she touched the hem of His garment it wasn’t a manifestation that came out Jesus’ body it was healing power. The Bible says in Mark chapter 5 in verse 30 “And Jesus immediately known himself that virtue (that word virtue is power) had gone out.” Well, what kind of power had gone out of Him, it had to had been healing power. Healing power is what went out of Him; healing power is what goes out of ministers hands when they lay hands upon them. Luke chapter 6 and verse 19 “And the whole multitudes sought to touch Him for there went virtue.” There went power out of Him “And healed them all.” Here again is another verse that tells us that what God gives to the sick is healing power. And then in Luke 5 in verse 17, and the power of the Lord was present to heal them. It’s very evident to me that we’ve got so focused on the manifestation that we ignore the healing power of God that’s administered to your body. Sid the instant our listeners have hands laid upon them the healing power of God is always administered to their bodies.
Sid: Okay, let’s assume that you have laid hands on me and I have a disease in my body.
Sid: And I haven’t felt a thing.
Doug: You don’t need to feel anything although some people do but you don’t have to feel anything.
Sid: I’m the only one in the line that did not fall over backwards.
Doug: That’s right, exactly right. The healing power of God is still administered and I’ll tell you how we can know that. In the Bible the Bible calls the word of God a seed. It’s likened into a seed in Luke and 1st Peter, the word of God is liken into a seed. If you know anything about seeds, if I had some corn seeds in my hands or some sunflower seeds, what you have in your hand is little suitcases. And little suitcases that contain life and power; life and power. That means then if the word of God is liken unto a seed then everyone. Sid listen “Oh, dear listeners listen; every promise within God’s word is filled with life and power. It’s like a seed, it’s a little container that has life and power within it. Everyone of God’s instructions has life and power contained within it. Now you know as well as I do that a seed, a corn seed or sunflower seed has to be planted in the ground and watered in order for the power within the seed to be released. Well, that’s natural seed; well what about the word of God that’s called a seed. What watering and planting is to corn seed, obedience is to God’s seeds. In other words the instant you obey a verse the power within the verse is released within your life. And so when you obey Mark chapter 16 verses 17 & 18 “That they shall lay hands upon the sick and shall recover.” The moment that you obey that verse the power within that verse is administered to your body, it’s released into your life.
Sid: But as you say it’s a seed not necessarily the plant.
Doug: That’s exactly right; now here’s the issue when Jesus said in Mark 11:23 “Whosoever shall say unto this mountain ‘Be thous removed and cast into the sea and shall not doubt in his heart but shall believe the things that thou say shall come to past; he shall have what-so-ever he saith.’” Sid He’s telling you and I to speak to our mountain and which in our case we’re talking about sickness here; so we’re talking about sickness. And you speak to your sickness according to Mark 11:23 you are administering power to your sickness. Now here’s the issue, the context of Mark 11:23, the scriptures that go before it is the fig tree. The fig tree was not an instantaneous manifestation. We know the story Jesus was traveling from Bethany to Jerusalem; got hungry one morning because as they were going to Jerusalem. Looked into the fig tree couldn’t find anything, stepped back spoke to it. Sid when He spoke to it that tree didn’t just shiver; because that tree just drop over dead. That tree stood there as alive as any tree that we see in our yard today. But He spoke to it; Jesus says “The Same thing that happens to that tree will the same thing that happens to your mountain when you speak to it. That means then that because that it was not an instantaneous manifestation then when you speak to your mountain in Mark chapter 11 verse 23 it’s not going to move that mountain immediately. But what’s going to happen is this a power is going to be administered and in this case the tree to the roots. And that tree; that power that Jesus administered through His spoken word worked in those roots.
Sid: Now what would you do, that was 24 hours it worked there. But what would you do if 3 years went by?
Doug: Well, first of all I would check up to make sure that I’m believing the right thing. Do I believe that it’s God’s will for me to be well. Am I maintaining…
Sid: Oh, we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.