Sid: Hello Sid Roth here with Mark Virkler and Mark during the commercial break you told me about how you have learned supernaturally mediate on God’s word.  Give me a scripture that you mediated on that literally was life changing to you.

Mark: Alright the scripture is that “We are transformed while we look not at things that are seen but things that are not seen.”  And I thought really I thought that I was transformed by looking at the law of scripture which says “Thou shall not steal.” And setting my will to do it and that law was not in the unseen world that was in the seen world.  And I set my will to do it and I try hard to not steal and I succeed some days and don’t other days.  “So Lord what do You mean when you say I’m transformed by looking into the unseen world?  What is in the unseen world that I would look at that would transform me?”  And as I journaled about it that’s part of the book of meditation you would look at a book and you’d journal about it. Here’s what the Lord said to me “Mark whatever you fix your eyes on grows within you and whatever grows within you you become.” He said “I want you to fix your eyes on Jesus and I want you to see Him in the unseen world, I want you to see what He’s doing and I want your to say ‘Yes Lord’ to that and do that.” So if I’m angry and mad and I want to hit a person before I hit him I just look and see if Jesus is hitting that person and sure enough he’s not he’s got his arm around him and he’s loving him and he’s pouring some oil into him; “Mark heal this person’s heart.”  And if I say yes Lord to that I’m transformed from a hitter to a lover because I looked into the unseen world and saw Jesus in action and I took that home. And before I knew enough to do that I used to look in all the wrong places I used to look at Bible law and that just made me a legalist. And sometime I would look at my sin and my weakness and that just made me depressed.  And the Lord said “Mark I didn’t tell you to look at your sin or your weakness, I didn’t even tell you to live under the law.” He said “I told you to live by the Spirit and walk by the Spirit, and worship in the Spirit and pray in the Spirit, and if you did do that you’re not even under the law; not that the law goes away it’s a safety net underneath to catch me to catch me if I ever fall from the Spirit. But He said “You’re called to live by the Spirit to see what the Father’s doing to do what He’s doing and to live out of that.”  So I’ve learned to keep my eyes fixed on Jesus whose at my right hand all of the time and He’s there with you and see what He’s doing tune to flow and let it come alive and live out of that vision that comes alive.

Sid: You know something that you just said is so profound but you didn’t say it God said it to you and that is “Whatever you fix your eyes on will grow within you.” So what about people that use television as a diversion and you can’t watch TV without having stuff slipped in that you don’t want to see. I mean I have to tell you I watch news and sports and I’m having trouble with both of them now. The news is so negative today that I end up talking about what’s going in current events rather than Jesus because I guess it grows within me.

Mark: That’s exactly right, the Bible says “Dwell on things which are lovely, just and pure and that surely doesn’t include the news because it’s dwelling on what’s negative.  And one day when I was looking at Washington DC and feeling really depressed I said “Man what I see down there scares me to death because they don’t have moral integrity, they spend money out of control, they don’t honor the word of God.” And I was full of fear that they’re going to capsize the economy because the spend without any control, restraint and I was angry they had no morals.  And I said “Well hold it Mark anger and fear are not gifts of the Holy Spirit” And so I said “Okay I’m going to do my morning devotions I said “Lord I think I need a new picture of Washington DC because the picture I’m looking at doesn’t contain you I just see evil and corruption, I don’t see Jesus” which means I’m looking at a picture which contains a lie because Jesus is everywhere.  And so I said “Lord where are You in Washington DC?” And I mean I put a smile on my face and I tuned into pictures which is the way I get a vision and I flow in picture drifted into my mind of Jesus enthroned on the throne above Congress.  And the White House with long flowing robe flowing down over Congress and the White House and His glory streaming down over Congress and the White House and He spoke a flowing thought to me which I journaled it up.  He said “Mark I rule in Washington DC.”  He said “I’m King of kings and I’m Lord of lords I rule.” Well that picture healed my anger, healed my fear, healed my pessimism because if I don’t see Jesus in action I’m as negative as can be.  And one of the Rhema words the Lord spoke to me many years ago was that leadership; it automatically transferred to those that remained optimistic. And if I’m going to sit around with the doldrums’ I can’t be a leader for Christ. And we want to be leaders for Christ and so I need to get rid of pessimism God’s not pessimistic…

Sid: Well you just said such a mouthful I need you to say it again. What did God tell you about leadership?

Mark: Leadership is automatically transferred to those that remain optimistic.” And He spoke that to me on a day where I was still a pessimist.  I was down in the mouth and drowning and it convicted my heart and man I’m so convinced.  I mean God’s not pessimistic, He’s not down in the mouth; He’s absolutely convinced He rules the universe.  And He would like His bride to believe that (Laughing).  And I wasn’t taught that in my early Christian years.

Sid: Let’s zero back to the 4 keys that God showed you when you took a year to learn how to hear His voice.

Mark: Okay, so Habakkuk 2:1, 2 verse 1 was “Spirit of God spoke to me to go to your guidepost and become still.”  The second thing was Habakkuk said “I’m going to keep watch to see what He’s going to speak to me.”  And there’s 2 keys there the seeing one and the speaking one.  And we’ve kind of defined the speaking one already as God voice sounds like flowing thoughts or spontaneous thoughts which means…

Sid: You know most people think that its sort of like Charlton Heston in “The Ten Commandments” with the booming voice and that’s where we get faked out a lot.

Mark: That’s where we get messed up because that’s not the way it comes 99½ % of the time to most of us.  Alright I’ve had that experience once in my whole life and I’m 62 years of age so I normally hear His voice as spontaneous flowing thoughts. And so does everybody and if they honor that and step into that then they can hear God’s voice everyday all the time even in the supermarket.  You’re checking out you can picture Jesus next to that lady there and you can say “Hey Lord what nice thing do you want to say to her?” I turn to flow and a flowing thought comes to you and you can share it with her and you’ve prophesied, give a word of wisdom, word of knowledge effortlessly right there in the supermarket.

Sid: Are you telling me that they’re many people that take this supernatural course; and it is supernatural it came from God and they never prophesied, they never had words of knowledge this starts?

Mark: Absolutely, absolutely I mean I talked to a woman last week in a seminar and she said “She heard my teaching several years ago and it opened up the entire gift of prophecy to her and that’s what she functions in right now.”  And so yeah it opens up any and all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit because once you hear His voice His voice just flows out through each one of those gifts.

Sid: Okay that was the first key what was the second?

Mark: Alright “I will keep watch to see.” And I mean I asked the Lord what that was about and He said “Mark fix your eyes on Jesus.” He said “Pray the prayer that Paul prayed in Ephesians 1:17.”  He said “I pray that the eyes of your heart would be enlightened.”  And I said “Huh…I went through Bible college and I never prayed that prayer, I never even focused on the eyes of my heart; I don’t know anything about the eyes of my heart.”  He said “You take the eyes of your heart and you fix them on Jesus.” And I said “Is it hard?” He said “It’s got to be simple enough for a child because you can’t enter the Kingdom unless you’re a child.” If you make any of this more difficult than a 7 year old can do it, and I have a 7 year old granddaughter who does this and journals and sends me her journaling by email.  If you make it harder than that you’ve wrecked it okay.  So to make sure I don’t make it hard I smile, when I’m there at my computer and my hands on the keyboard I put a smile on my face because then I’m not grunting and I’m not making it hard. I mean if Jesus can be laughing I can be laughing and it calms me down and I get out of own laboring and get into His rest and get a flow going.  And you can’t get a flow going if you’re striving and grunting, so big smile on your face and picture Jesus right next to me and I define that as godly imagination.  I define godly imagination as picturing things God says are so.  So if God’s says “Jesus is Immanuel next to me” well then He’s here next to me.  And there’s no reason in the world I can’t picture my theology if I can think it I can sure picture it. And if a picture’s worth a thousand words then I just intensified within me by a thousand fold the spiritual reality.  Just like the father in faith when God gave him a picture of the stars in the heaven the next verse says “Then he believed,” Genesis 15:5, 6. So if I want heart faith, if I want faith that can cast mountains in the sea I need pictures from God; God’s not afraid to give pictures He gave… Jesus without a parable He taught them not. So I don’t need to fear picturing, I don’t need to fear Godly imagination, I need to define it and say “I can move into that.”  So I’m going to quiet myself down, the easiest way to quiet myself down is to picture Jesus. If I’m picturing Jesus it calms my thoughts, focuses me in on Him and my brains not just empty it’s focused in the presence of Jesus.  And I write down “Good morning Lord what do You want to say to me?” Put a smile on my face tune to flow which is a third key which is “His voice is flowing thoughts.” And then the 4th key “God said to Habakkuk “Inscribe the vision.” Just begin to write out the flow of ideas that come and that simple act of writing is we stay in that faith mode for 5 minutes or 10 minutes and write in faith.  Because I know that when the flow is on I can go back and test it then which means I don’t have to test it now.  If I can write for 5 or 10 minutes without testing it I can get 10 minutes of stuff.

Sid: Now when just out of curiosity when you’re writing for 5 or 10 minutes do you stop then for while and think “What am I going to write next?” Or do you just write without thinking this is what I’m trying to understand?

Mark: Yeah I write without thinking because thinking for me is Mark Virkler controlling my cognitive thoughts myself and linearly putting stuff together connecting with my the sins of the prophets just doing the connecting I don’t want that.  I want to die daily, I want Christ to come alive I want to hear His voice.  So connecting thinking is Mark Virkler’s thinking and flow…flowing thoughts come from the spirit realm.  And if it’s flowing accusation, condemnation and lies it’s demonic. If it’s flowing comfort and faith and hope it’s coming from the Holy Ghost. So I only want one kind of flow the flow that lines up with the names of Jesus.   I’ve got my eyes fixed on Jesus doing the flow and here’s one of the rules…yeah if the flow stops.  I’m here typing and  the flow stops instead of thinking I just go back and picture Jesus put a big smile on my face, picture Him very clearly again and say “Hey Lord is there more that You want to say to me?”  And the smile on my face and my eyes fixed on Jesus the flow will bubble up again and I start typing again.

Sid: Now let me ask you this question.  I’m Jewish coming from a Jewish background I was always told don’t make any image of God and I recognize I can picture Jesus but I think I have a little blockage because of that training from just being a child.  And I don’t know in other words I don’t what Jesus to picture by that I mean is what is He look like; how do I picture Him?  Do you understand my question?

Mark: I sure do and you know He’s got 100 names in the Bible which means He’s probably got 100 faces. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John preached and I was told different faces an eagle and ox, a man and a servant you know. And then you find those in the Book of Revelation if I’m from a totally black church  I’ve seen Jesus as black, and if I’m white He’s usually white. And the color of His skin is not what I’m coming to it’s His character, it’s His nature.

Sid: Yes but you’re seeing an image when you visualize.

Mark: And when I first saw that image I saw Him from the shoulders on down, long flowing robes, gentle loving countenance reaching out to engulf me in reams of love that’s what I saw. And when I finally did see a face after a few weeks His eyes were sparkling full of laughter and a great big smile on His lips, that’s what I saw.  And I’m not real concerned about the color of His skin, I believe He becomes all things to all people and that’s great. I think that He has more than one face, I think that we see through a veil darkly and so…

Sid: And so are you saying to me that when you visualize Jesus sometimes He…alright skin color I get but you’re saying even His facial characteristics are different on different times?

Mark: Well yeah He can be firm, yeah He can be firm if He needs to be and He’s not laughing necessarily and so it’s two lovers sharing love.  So it’s just you and your wife together you know…

Sid: Okay but if I want to picture my wife in my imagination I have no difficulty doing that because I’ve seen her in the natural that’s what I’m trying to figure out.

Mark: When Jesus in the natural is somebody with two arms, two legs, somebody with a torso and long flowing robes for most of us sometimes He has sandals and that’s what I see. Some people see Him in wranglers and you can find; the actual color of His skin I don’t think it’s real crucial.  Like Paul says “We see though a glass darkly.” And I think that any glimpse we get of Jesus it’s only a glimpse of one part of Him it’s not the fullness of Him because we’d probably melt down if we saw the fullness of Him. We’ve seen a little bit you know like the guy who saw an elephant and just saw a little bit and we’re just seeing a little bit and that’s fine.  I mean it’s His word, we’re coming to the Wonderful Counselor to receive wonderful council to have our hearts healed up of fear and anger and frustration.  It’s the words He’s speaks, it’s His arms around us that hold us, it’s His touch as we feel His touch and our cells are energized that’s where we’re coming to not the color of our skin.

Sid: Okay now tell me just a little bit more about this journaling.

Mark: Yeah, I didn’t think journaling was going to help me at all because I don’t like writing and I’m not very good at spelling and grammar and I thought it would mess it up big time, but if you look in the Bible if you look at David He wrote a 150 Psalms and John wrote 22 chapters of 2 visions in Revelation.  Well these are men and so I tried it and instead of it crushing my prayer time it released it. And I asked God “Why did journaling release my prayer time and let me hear Your voice for 10 or 15 minutes?  And He said “Mark before we began to journal as soon as I began speaking and give you a thought you would instantly test it and say ‘Hmm wonder if that came from God?’ You’d jam the receiver, hang up on Me and I can’t get more than 2 words out of My mouth but with journaling you stay in faith for 5 minutes and you write in flow for 5 minutes and I can talk to you for 5 full minutes because you know you can test it after the flow is done and make sure it lines up with scripture, but then you’re not jamming the receiver and hanging up on me because you allowed Me to speak for 5 minutes without doubting Me.” Because if I’m going to shift from faith to doubt I jam the receiver and hang up on God because those who come to God must come in faith.  So journaling lets me stay in faith for 5 minutes or 10 minutes and receive 5 minutes of Him talking to me.

Sid: …Mark last thought.

Mark:  Well I just like to say I just pray for the scales to fall from people’s eyes and blindness to be gone and for them to see clearly into the spirit realm and to hear clearly the voice of the Lord Jesus.  I speak that to you in Jesus name Amen.

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