Sid: If you were listening on yesterday’s broadcast I have Paul and Luanne Wilbur here. Paul is an Integrity Music recording artist, and we’re featuring his latest, and I might add I believe his most anointed CD. It was recorded live at John Hagee’s church; it’s called “The Watchman.” Paul on yesterday’s broadcast you were talking about the return of the Lord. I was kidding you as anyone would have of been “Well no one knows!” You said “Yes but there’s a missing piece of a puzzle.” What did you mean by that?
Paul: There’s a tapestry if you will that God has woven together over the last two millennia that gives us insight and understanding of the things He said in the past. Yeshua was asked many times “What’s going to be the sign of Your coming?” Listen Sid one of the anointing’s of a watchman is they watch for the coming of the Lord. There are three things, three main anointing’s that a watchman does.
- They watch for the dawn – There’s all kind of stuff in there we can’t even go into.
- They watch for danger and they sound the alarm – One of their main jobs is they watch for the coming of the Lord, and they call to the gatekeeper “Open the gate so that the Lord can come in.” Yeshua spoke about that in John 10 as well.
But there is a piece of the puzzle that since the recording of this watchman thing it’s like the spirit of the watchman has come on my life in a way that I’ve never known.
Sid: As you’re sharing this I am starting to travail deep within. Luanne I’m just curious is anything going on with you spiritually as he’s sharing about the watchman?
Luanne: Well just a real excitement and a churning, churning…
Sid: Alright, but what is this travail? As you’re talking about the anointing of the watchman I am travailing deep within my spirit, but go ahead.
Paul: In Matthew 23 Yeshua gives a piece of the puzzle which has now come into focus. He said “You will not see me again until you say.” Now over the last many years people have said “He’s speaking to Israel. No He’s speaking particularly to Jewish people. No He’s speaking particularly to Jerusalem because He says ‘Jerusalem, Jerusalem’” in Matthew 23 37th verse and following the next two verses. “Oh Jerusalem Jerusalem you who killed the prophets stone those who are sent to you! How often I wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks, but you were not willing. You will not see me again until you say ‘Blessed is He (Baruch haba b’shem Adonai).’ What a thrill Sid…
Sid: Blessed is He who comes in the
Sid and Paul: name of the Lord.
Paul: I got to lead that song in Jerusalem 10 years ago on that marvelous… these times of the Lord that He gives to us that, now that I look back I see how precious that really was. A lot of times we can be walking at the time in the anointing in the season of the Lord for our lives and not even know it. We’re so caught up with the details, or what’s happening, or what’s not happening, or how should I be responding here. That we don’t see the things, and that’s exactly what was happening to the people of Jerusalem when He spoke these words. Now listen, here’s the hidden thing. He said “You will not see me again.” Now who’s He speaking to? Was He speaking to all of Israel? Are we waiting for all of Israel to say to Yeshua “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord?” I don’t think so, although…
Sid: Many people believe that.
Paul: Many people believe that, and it wasn’t until 1948 that was even possible; which is a supernatural happening. Can a nation be born in a day? Yes says the Spirit of the Lord. As He spoke to the prophet “Son of man can these dry bones live?” when Ezekiel was standing there seeing that. Yes they can. There standing as a might army today. Was He speaking particularly to Jerusalem? Well there was no united Jerusalem until 1967, so that’s possible. This is so, so wonderful to me that God has held back these things until this last hour. Who was He speaking to in particular? He said “I wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks.” Who were the hens of Jerusalem? Who are the ones who sat in judgment over Him just a couple of days after He spoke these words? Who was it that handed Him over, had the authority to hand Him over who were the hens that oversaw the chicks? Was it not the Sanhedrin? Was it not the Pharisees, and the Sadducees, the rulers, the 71 elders who ruled over Israel of their doctrine, of their chala-chab, their day to day walking out of the word of God? Wasn’t it them? He said “I wanted to gather the chicks, but YOU HENS weren’t willing!” He said “You will not see me again until YOU say.” For 300 years after the time Yeshua that spoke these words the Sanhedrin continued not in Israel, not in Jerusalem, but outside as they codified what we know as rabbinic Judaism today, and disappeared for 1700 years as a ruling body. On December 10th, put your seatbelt on, on December 10, 2004 71 elders approached the Knesset in Jerusalem and asked for permission to pray on top of the Temple Mount, and they said “We are the Sanhedrin revived.” “You will not see me again Jerusalem until you, who, until the leaders, until the rulers, until those 71 elders look to Him and say ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’” Until 1948 no Israel, until 1967 no Jerusalem, and until 2004 no leaders of the people to stand in the gap and to declare to Yeshua, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.” We are… the pieces are in place, we are in the season of the return of the Lord.
Sid: I’m looking at your new CD entitled “The Watchman” and there’s a picture of religious Jew, you might even call him a Sanhedrin with a tallit, a prayer shawl, over his head. The album is called “The Watchman” but there’s one song in particular called “Adonai” tell me about it.
Paul: Yeshua says “You call me Lord Lord and do not do what I say.” Sid we’re in a time now when those who call on Him as Lord are gonna lay down what they think, and take up what He thinks. They are gonna do the commandments of the Lord. The law of the Lord is not a bad word, the Torah, the walking out of the precepts of the concept. These are not just the suggestions of God, these are His laws that cause us to come into harmony with His plan, into harmony with His decrees, with His creation, with His kingdom. We need to be law keepers. In fact, I say that if the word of God is not been inscribed upon our hearts, Jeremiah 31:31, we are not New Covenant believers. We need the law of the Lord inscribed on our hearts that we are law keepers, we are keepers of the things of God; in fact, did you know Israeli’s today don’t call Christians heretics they call Christians “notsrim” which means watchman. There are two main words for the word watchman Sid in Hebrew.
- Notsair – this word, where we get the plural notsrim, is a watchmen in the sense of one who guards a precious treasure.
Even secular Israeli’s know those who follow Yeshua have been called to be watchmen, to guard a precious treasure, a covenant keeper, one who watches over the word and the ways of God to walk in them. The watchmen, Adonai, we call to you Yeshua you are Lord of all. We say not my will, but Your will be done. You are Lord, You are Adonai.
Excerpt Adonai – The Watchman
Sid: Can you imagine Paul that brand new installed Sanhedrin, that leadership of Israel first time in almost 2000 years that has been installed and operational is about ready to say what you were singing “Baruch haba b’shem Adonai (Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord).”
Paul: They are, they are preparing Sid to declare it. It is time to stop playing games; it’s time to get off the fence. For those of you who are listening to us today and you’d say “You know I have prayed a prayer, but I have not been walking the walk.” Now is the time; pull your car off to the side of the road, put your work down at your desk, do whatever you need to do and say this with me. “Yeshua, I declare you are Lord of all. I want to walk in Your ways, in Your word, in Your plan, come and fill me fresh new with Your Spirit right now. I surrender my heart and my life I give it to you. Come Yeshua, come and use me.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Eddie James he doesn’t need an introduction to most of you; he’s had the number 3 song on all charts. I want you to get to know Eddie James and what God has done in his life. You’re a young guy Eddie and at age 8 you get saved and this is unfair, I protest you heard the audible voice of God; what did He say?
Eddie: (Laughing) I heard the voice of the Lord begin to speak to me about my purpose; immediately after I said “Yes” to God. I’ll never forget it the Lord said, “You will preach my word to the nations; you will lift up a sound of worship. You will sing, you will write music.” I just heard it just like that. And I’ll never forget just the encounter and the weightiness of the moment. I told my father as soon as I got in the car with him at home and shared that with him. The first thing he said was “You tell your mother.” And when I told my mother that when she had finally got home from service that day she pulled out this card that she had written on; there was a man that came from Africa to my church while I was in my mother’s womb and told her almost word for word that same thing that I had just shared with her. She had never shared with anyone except my father.
Sid: She must have been beside herself I mean someone that young is not supposed to hear clearly from God, well though I guess you could go back to Samuel, so there’s a little precedent. But you learned the supernatural, the reality of the living God as a child; tell me a few of the things that you saw with your eyes with your mother’s faith. Because you didn’t have much in the way of finances and therefore your mother was in the position that most people in the next year or two years are going to find themselves in. That is totally dependent on God, what did you see as a child?
Eddie: It’s fascinating, I just remember I come from a very prayerful heritage my aunts, my uncles, my grandparents they were prayer leaders, as well as worship leaders of our church I grew up in The Church of Christ there in Phoenix, Arizona called Immanuel. And it was constant that I heard the intercession in our home so in that context there was a season of my life where financially it was pretty challenging. We were going through a rough time financially. So there were times when my brothers or my sister would have fevers, catch cold, or get sick or have very challenging health issues. My mother just would use anointing oil and lay hands on them because going to the hospital wasn’t an option we just did not have the finances or the medical insurance support to take care of those. But my mother would lay hands on my brother Terrance I’ll never forget he was really really sick. Not physically moving having some real bad health issues and my mother laid hands on him and prayed and just…I remember breaking the spirit of death off of my brother, and I’m talking about minutes he’s jumping, he’s whole, the fever breaks, he’s totally fine. And I remember also this was crazy; this was probably the most crazy thing I’ve ever seen we’re sitting at the dinner table there’s no food in the cupboards at all, no food in the refrigerator, no food in the cupboards one of the biggest stories that we told over the years that just blown me away. We’re at the table in South Phoenix, Arizona. My mother puts out the pots and pans and I found out the reason she did that is that Lord had reminded her of when the feeding of the 5000 she said “The Lord showed her how Jesus had the people sit down as though they were going to eat though there was nothing prepared they were going to bless the food. The Lord brought the two fish and the five loaves he set the people down, prepared them to eat.” My mother said “Set the children down and prepare them and pull out the pots and pans in faith like the two fish and five loaves if you will.” And so she pulls it out and you could only use water because that was all we had there’s nothing else in there it’s just water. While we’re sitting there at the table just kind of awkward knowing that there’s nothing in the cupboards the doorbell rings and my mother goes to the door. Now we grew up in a very kind of a very disciplined home so to turn around in your seat was not appropriate but I couldn’t help but to see what was going on because my mother was in the Spirit and when she’s in the Spirit like I said anything was about to happen. And my mother goes to the door and I turned around and look to see what was going to happen. When she opens the door I hear a car drive off and there are 12 bags of groceries around the doorstep, literally 12 bags. We go and help pull those bags in the house and my mother begins to cook and we ate. I’m telling you like it was a buffet, it was awesome.
Sid: Eddie you just keep provoking me to jealousy and you know the Bible says you’re job description the Christian is to provoke the Jew to jealousy, but our time is slipping away and I’ve got to have them experience the anointing on your music. Tell me very briefly about the song “I Am.”
Eddie: Well, “I Am” came to me by a dream; my pastor’s wife Phyllis Sawyer spoke to me and asked me to write a song with Jesus singing to us. And so when she said that no one taps into that anointing for something more than my pastor’s wife; she has this ability to push that button until something comes out. And so I went to bed that night and dreamed “I Am” literally Jesus singing to us and that’s what that song is about.
Sid: And Jesus in this singing over you let’s go to “I Am.”
Excerpt: “I Am”
Sid: Well, I don’t know about you but the anointing I mean Eddie prays and worships God so long a day that the anointing is out of sight…
Sid: People are actually getting physically healed; the presence of God is so strong, and no wonder I’m featuring this week Rick Joyner’s brand new book “The Power to Change the World.” And although it’s a history book there are certain revelations that if you don’t capture, if you don’t understand, if you don’t move into you’re going to miss the greatest revival the world has ever seen. It’s no accident that you’re listening to us and by the way any pain of any kind especially in necks and backs and in fingers right now if you by faith and faith is the currency of Heaven; if you will with the currency of Heaven. Faith without a corresponding action is dead; move that part of your body you will see that that pain there’s a spine that’s being totally straightened right now in Jesus Name. You had curvature of the spine you don’t have it now. I am so excited about Rick Joyner’s brand new book. Now Rick why did you write this book, what was in your heart and I know that you’ve written portions of it over the years but why now? Why are you releasing it right now?
Rick: Well, I do believe that it is of prophetic history in the sense that the model for coming moves of God especially in America and Europe I believe we will find two of the greatest models in the Welsh Revival and in the Azusa Street Revival.
Sid: Why is it that both of these revivals were in the early 1900’s and we’ve had 2000 years and these are considered the greatest the world has ever seen? What was so special about the early 1900’s?
Rick: Well you know as I’m sure you’re aware, I think many things parallel you know God His basic business is restoration; which includes redemption, reconciliation, restitution. But He’s restoring, He’s going to restore the earth, Peter talked about the restoration of all things. He’s restoring the church, He’s restored Israel, He’s restored I mean at least Israel’s is in the process of being restored like the church is. But He’s going to restore all things Peter talked about. I think there are many things that parallel like the beginning of Zionist movement right about the same time just you know I think it was being birth in the hearts of God’s people to retake the land of Israel. At about the same time there was a corresponding outpouring of the Holy Spirit. And you see the corresponding links I believe throughout recent history especially.
Sid: I agree, let’s talk about one of these revivals; let’s start with the Welsh Revival we’re not as knowledgeable of that as the Azusa Street. How did that start?
Rick: Well, it started a couple young men, a few kids who wanted God more than they wanted oxygen, I mean they just were hungry for God, desperate for God and they prayed.
Sid: It’s which came first the chicken or the egg? What made them so desperate?
Rick: Well you know that’s a good question and I’m sure we could debate the answer. Whether God put it in their hearts or they just bombarded Heaven until He came down you know I really don’t know. But I know if we seek Him we will find Him, if we draw near to Him He will draw near to us. And with these kids so desperately, and most of them were children, most of them were teenagers in the Welsh Revival, they were so desperate for God He had to come; He had to meet them and He just absolutely overflowed. It’s probably been the greatest transformation of a society ever in history. And it did it transformed, I’ve got newspapers from the Welsh Revival…
Sid: What was the country like from a moral viewpoint before the revival?
Rick: Well, it was almost entirely secular, there was alcoholism was in extreme in the country it was mostly coal mining country of Great Britain. It was poor, it was desperate there was violent crime everywhere. It sounds like America even the worse parts of America in these times or some parts of other parts of the world it was just in terrible shape spiritually and all. One of these newspapers I had they listed the year before the revival all the numbers of murders and robberies and rapes and everything else it was astonishing; then the first year the revival they had three arrests in the whole place and those were for drunkenness in public. You know I mean like totally wiped out crime; they say police didn’t have anything to do the jails were empty.
Sid: Tell me about this fellow Evan Roberts who was used in that revival.
Rick: Well he was a coal miner himself who just had a desire to serve the Lord and I think he was unquestionably the leader of the Welsh Revival and the one that God used to probably the most visible leader. There were many others mostly like teenagers and even like young children. But he was a special friend and had a very unique ability to be a host for the Holy Spirit. He knew how to come into a meeting sometimes not do anything which was the best form of leadership just let the Holy Spirit take over. He also knew when to get up, and when to lead, and when to teach, and when to whatever, but he was just so sensitive to the Spirit and so humble before the Lord. And you know some of the most learned preachers of the time like G. Campbell Morgan, and General Booth, and others came to visit the Welsh Revival. Even G. Campbell Morgan who was considered the greatest theological mind of the time said he would trade every bit of his learning and pulpit abilities for just a touch of what he saw in Evan Roberts. That’s how amazing it was.
Sid: You know I’m reading from your book page 62; where did you get this information of these personal things that happened? But let me read this “On February 22 Evan revealed that he was not going to preach at Britain Ferry where he had an engagement. For the entire week he remained confined to his bedroom without speaking to anyone, not even his relatives. He was staying in the house of Mr. and Mrs. Jones who faithfully turned away hundreds of people including famous preachers and newspaper men who had come from all over the world to see him. This week of silence just as the revival was reaching an unprecedented crescendo amazed the world almost as much as the revival. How could the leader of such a move of God completely withdraw himself just as it was peaking? But Evan knew that he was not the source of the revival and that if the presence of the Lord was removed it would all end regardless of how hard he and the other evangelists worked. Obedience is more important than sacrifice; Evan was willing to let the world’s most famous preachers and reporters, who were all clamoring to see him be offended rather than risk the Lord’s displeasure.” I mean this is outrageous it’s one of the greatest revivals the world has ever seen and the leader walks out.
Rick: Yeah, it was but you know I think that was his greatest strength. His goal was to obey the Lord and you know he did care about anything as much as he did that. He was sensitive to the Holy Spirit and he just wanted to follow the Spirit of God.
Sid: You know he put in four principals for himself, let me read these four principals the Holy Spirit showed him or the four tenets for revival; 1. I must take great care first to do all that God says, commands, and that only. Moses lost himself here; he struck the rock. 2nd. To take every matter however insignificant to God in prayer. Joshua lost himself here he made a covenant with the Gibeonites who pretended that they lived in a far off country while they were living close at hand. 3rd. To give obedience to the Holy Spirit to; 4th. To give all the glory to Him. Awe, what would happen if the leaders the Christian leaders in America followed those four principals?
Rick: Well, we would probably have similar results that Evan Roberts had. That’s why I wrote that book I believe it is going to take people to return to the Lord with a full heart to their first love and obedience to Him, but they will. And you know to me the ones that are getting that book particularly and seem to be stirred by it is the youth. Even my own kid said that was their favorite book that I had written even over “The Final Quest” or anything.
Sid: I have to believe that it’s a right book for this moment in history. So I think that the average good Christian leader in America was to walk into Evan Roberts service he would say this is totally out of order. What do you think?
Rick: Yeah, I think a lot of the meetings they would. You know men came from all over the world who thought that they could give their wisdom and maturity and all would be a big help to the revival but as soon as they got them the anointing was so strong they shut up and sat down.
Sid: So they didn’t have to worry about saying that word isn’t from God if they got up with a false word they’d be knocked off their feet; is that what you’re saying?
Rick: They’re saying that’s pretty much what happened during the peak of the revival that no one dared to move in the flesh. It’s like when Solomon prayed for the temple and the glory of the Lord filled the temple the priest had to flee because of the glory of God. And I believe all flesh has to flee in His presence. All flesh will shut up in His presence you know. And that’s what we need more than anything else and we’re called to be the temple of the Lord. You know if the Lord’s not in His temple what good is the temple? And if the Lord’s in it doesn’t matter how glorious the temple is it’s not going to be the temple that get’s your attention it’s going to be the glory of the Lord. So you know I think that this return to the temple being for the Lord; I mean what would the church look like if we built a church with one goal in mind to attract the Holy Spirit. We didn’t care if people came or not…
Sid: But how you going to make the mortgage payment? I’ll tell you what we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: I am so excited about what we’re learning this week because I have Dennis Clark here. Dennis has taught his course on how to walk in supernatural shalom, peace, 24 hours a day 7 days a week. He’s taught this to thousands and the thing that is so amazing to me is that I have met men and women that somehow have wondered into this arena of supernatural of peace. They have great ministries, but they don’t know how to teach everyone to move in this arena. Dennis has this practical step-by-step 60 day challenge in which at the end… well let me ask you Dennis. Thousands of people have taken your courses, at the end of 60 days what can someone expect?
Dennis: Absolute improvement in their daily walk. The key is I’ve never seen a lack of growth after people taking this course. The only thing that is not instant is maturity, but I guarantee with this course I’ve watched with my own eyes people transform to where people didn’t recognize them. They say “What’s happened to you and everything?” In a very short period of time, not instant, but a very short period of time. The learning scale is just wonderful…
Sid: Everyone wants something instant, but to me people have gone 20 years and never walked in this 24-7 peace. So what’s a few months?
Sid: But everyone wants it instant. They want you to lay hands on them and they’ll walk in this peace. Does it work?
Dennis: Well God told us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. That pretty much teaches us that we need some self-governance. We can’t wait from encounter to encounter, we need to save from the initial encounter what and how do I cooperate with God moment by moment, day by day. That’s really what this is going to teach. It’s going to teach you that initial encounter no matter how spectacular and wonderful it was it still needed a continual relationship moment by moment from that day forward.
Sid: Speaking about a continual relationship I know a good way for me to find out if I’m mastering this peace, and that’s to be stuck in traffic. That time you were stuck in Manchester, Connecticut, that’s what I’m talking about. Tell me about it.
Dennis: Yeah, Jennifer and I had driven 13 ½ hours to New England. We always travel so that we go church to church. We were 1 mile from the destination, 1 mile from the hotel we were going to stay and suddenly, you know how tired you are after 13 ½ hours of driving. Suddenly all traffic came to a dead stop, all 8 lanes were blocked off, and we watched the police put up the yellow crime scene tape. Jennifer looked at me and we were both thinking the same thing, were a mile from the hotel and a bed. We said “No were going to practice what we preach.” We just closed our eyes right there in the car and yielded to peace.
Sid: Now you had been travelling for, how long did you say 13 ½ hours? So was it late at night now?
Dennis: Yes, it’s late at night.
Sid: You’re tired, you’re worn out…
Sid: Now you’ve got a jam that doesn’t move and some sort of yellow tape going around. How did you stay in peace?
Dennis: We basically said “This is where we live, where we’ve learned everything.” Matter of fact the first thing that happened we dropped down and said “We’re not going to get involved in this, we’re going to Him.” When you drop down and the peace ruled, even though our head had not a clue as to what was going to transpire, but in abiding in that peace I felt led, here’s a little guidance. I felt led to move over 1 car length, which is ridiculous with hundreds of cars stalled. Suddenly all of a sudden 1 single policemen, quite frankly in hind sight I think it was an angel.
Sid: Just out of curiosity because I know how this operates with me. If that had been me, and we’re in a ridiculous situation, and my wife was with me I would have said “I think I’m going to change lanes. What do you think?” Did you do that?
Dennis: Because I was paying more attention to my gut than my head. I wasn’t looking for a second opinion, I was looking for His opinion. I’ve learned when anything came between my peace, my guidance, my discernment everything goes right out the window. Anxiety brings chaos, and chaos brings confusion, and God’s not the author of it, and I don’t trust any decision I come up with.
Sid: Okay you change lanes, then what happened?
Dennis: There was only space to change lanes by 1 car length and it was right up near the tape. A policeman came and pulled back the tape and 8 or 9 cars were led through and he puts the tape back.
Sid: What car number were you?
Dennis: I was the last one.
Sid: You were the ninth?
Dennis: The ninth. It was like looking in the rearview mirror, I started to pass a few so I saw in the rearview mirror just a handful of cars, and the tape was back in tact. We read in the paper and heard on the news the following day that it was closed till 6 in the morning because the police were looking for shell casings. There had been a highway shootout with the police, and they needed to find the shell casings so they sealed it off as a crime area.
Sid: Why did they let anyone through yet alone you as the ninth car? Why would they do that? I can’t think of one reason can you?
Dennis: I can’t either.
Sid: So who was it that did it? What was that officer’s name, I want his name.
Dennis: Yeah I want his name to.
Sid: What’s his badge number?
Dennis: I believe it was an angel because it was so supernatural, but it was honoring God. You know I think the key is in honoring God. Going to my peace is basically saying “I want your rule regardless of circumstances.” In honoring Him it says “He that honors Me, him shall I honor.” I really feel like that’s played in our lives over and over again. It just could play out in the lives of anybody. If in doubt and you’re in a situation where doesn’t look like there’s a solution, why not honor God.
Sid: Just out of curiosity though if that angel, and I believe it was, hadn’t opened the way just for the first nine cars, of which yours was the ninth. Then sealed it up, how long would you have been in that traffic jam?
Dennis: Till 6 in the morning the following day. This would have been 10 at night…
Sid: How could you handle that, you’d already been driving a day?
Dennis: I have no idea. I just know our passion is obedience. For me obedience is to keep my peace. To lose my peace means something’s coming between me and Him.
Sid: How does this work with people that have marriage problems? There was a meeting you had that was so amazing.
Dennis: Actually it started with Jennifer and I in our prayer time. All of a sudden, and our prayer time is rather silent because we’re enjoying His presence. It’s kind of like soaking in the beginning, were kind of contemplative’s at heart.
Sid: Out of curiosity when you soak, and your wife, do you use music, or you don’t want any distraction.
Dennis: Nothing, no, no I could do it with music, but I’ve learned to just to enjoy him.
Dennis: It’s like honor Him, and in that event we were accustomed to for many years, all of a sudden the presence came into the room. We knew we knew it was God Himself coming into that room. We teach even out of that place of peace you learn the different attributes and the nuances of God. When He came in we both blurted out 2 scriptures simultaneously. I said “This is when 2 or 3 are gathered in My name.” She burst out “This is one accord.” We felt that in His presence we were being nit together supernaturally. We were already nit together; we already felt like we had a prophetic marriage, we already felt like God put the 2 of us together for His kingdom purposes not just for me to enjoy her, and her to enjoy me. This was supernaturally above and beyond even what we felt we had revelation on. This was an expression of His anointing of His peace that was tied directly to unity, and the bond of peace. There was deeper bond between the 2 of us. After that happened we were shocked, but we didn’t know what was the manifestation. Our very first meeting in Greer, South Carolina after that, the weight of peace came down. We called it Power Peace for a lack of… but it was a weight it was a heaviness. It came down in the meeting that we were teaching at and there was a huge amount of pastoral leadership teams, ordained men and women of God gathered together there. Probably a dozen or 2, but there was about 7 of them, I’ve never done this before and never done it since, I sat on the platform and was by the Spirit was led to point to different people. Some saw me point to them, and some didn’t, but they all collapsed on the floor. When they got up their testimonies were all identical. They said we feel a supernatural nitting to our pastor and to the leadership in this place. It was like a mini-nitting together by the Spirit of God. It was a kind of unity that I had never seen it was not fabricated…
Sid: It sounds to me like it’s the type of unity God wants for His body period.
Dennis: Period, absolutely.
Sid: If that were to ever happen who wouldn’t want to be with, I use the word Mishpochah, with family.
Dennis: Right, but if you’re moving in the gifts and you don’t have peace I wonder if this bond of peace, and the unity of the faith, and a deeper knowledge of the Son of God is gonna manifest. For the maturity to take place the supernatural peace it has to be intact.
Sid: How does this affect people’s marriages? I know you experienced a level of peace, but does it happen to other marriages?
Dennis: Yes. As a matter of fact after this we went to the very next church in New England after this experience.
Sid: Were out of time.
Sid: Now all this week you heard of an absolute miracle how Bridgette and Donald got remarried. Bridgette was actually in a church that was a branch of Pastor Gary Whetstone’s church. He’s pastor of Victory Christian Fellowship in New Castle, Delaware. There is an anointing on Gary and Faye’s life for restoring marriages and making marriages what God’s called them to be. How many couples would you estimate that were divorced that got remarried that were influenced by your teaching would you say Gary?
Gary: Well, I image there is at least over a hundred.
Sid: That is phenomenal, but one of the reasons your able to teach like you do on what a marriage should be, what God called a marriage to be is because if you thought it was a miracle that Bridgette and Donald got back together you haven’t heard anything yet. Gary would you tell us what happened with you and Faye?
Gary: You know Sid the thing that I believe is the most significant that happened is during our separation and divorce in 1975 God put in my heart, and during that time I wasn’t Spirit Filled but I got Spirit Filled and I recognized that God was able to reach me and to bring me into the power of God He could reach Faye and bring her into the same experience. And He began to speak to my heart to just give her everything that she asked for. I even paid for the divorce and while she was dating even my best friend that they’d go out and they’d have sex together and I would watch my two children while they could be together. And God began to I mean the pain that normal everybody would go through and all the normal anger and bitterness and hatred and all of that. God began to deal with my heart and show me that the love of God has the power to forgo any pain, any situation, any difficulty, any bitterness, any resentment, and to believe the best. And to trust that God would reach into that life and deliver and heal and restore.
Sid: And you know something I’m never going to forget, is at the divorce hearing you made a proclamation, would you repeat that.
Gary: Yeah, right at the divorce hearing I read the scripture that “If the unbelieving spouse leaves, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled unto her husband.” And so I brought to the courts attention that I will only permit her to be only married to me. So I brought the word of God to bear in our divorce.
Sid: You stated that and you actually said “You wanted that in the records, is that correct?”
Gary: Yes, we did we put it in the court record because I wanted it on record that the only thing that would happen in this marriage is that we would be restored.
Sid: Gary I know about the grace of God; I know about the love of God but for you to be able to love your wife under the circumstances of she divorced you; she is going out with another guy; you are babysitting to help her out. How did you do that?
Gary: See Sid the real of the love of God is not just a feeling, it has within it a total life commitment, that when the love of God is worked in your heart you are able to stand in the place of any pain and difficulty in life and know that God’s love has covered that sin and that they are freed of every guilt, every shame. And by so doing, I knew that God was going to bring her to salvation to the power of the Spirit and do a complete reconciliation in my life.
Sid: So you were looking at the end rather than the path to get there.
Gary: Yeah there’s no possibility of looking at the act of a person, you have to look at the fact that the love of God reaches all the way to the reconciliation of the end. That’s why Jesus is called the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. That even from the point when man sinned, Christ himself became the grace for all mankind even before he came to the earth. And that’s how the love of God is in us that we can see another sin and that love of God reaches all the way to the end of their restoration and their complete restoring of everything that God intended for them.
Sid: So your walking in the supernatural love of God. I assumed that Faye really didn’t want much to do with you initially, but when did you see that love starting to pay off?
Gary: Well, what would happen is I would just tell her constantly, she would say “Gary I hate you.” I would say “Faye you can’t hate me because the Bible says “Everyone that’s begotten of God loves them that are begotten of God, you’ve got born again you have to love me.” She said “That’s not what the Bible says.” And I said “No there is nothing that you can say that would ever defy what God’s word declares.” So what happened was the word of God prevailed, and one day while I was at work I heard the voice of God speak to me that “Today your marriage is reconciled.” I just saw inside of my spirit that I’d be taking my wife to a small prayer meeting that I was going to that night and that we’d be going out to dinner together and I just had that knowledge inside that when I came out to my car there was a note written on my window it said “Jesus had met me today, I did not go to work, would you take me to dinner and to that prayer meeting.” And exactly what God spoke to me He did.
Sid: Now paint a picture of where you and Faye today and this was the marriage that the devil wanted to see destroyed in the worst way and you can see why. Tell us what God has done through your lives.
Gary: Well, we’re married 34 years with 9 months off for bad behavior which we call it, but during the course of this last 22 years we have opened up almost 400 Bible Colleges around the world. We oversee 4 churches in the East coast here and the primary church we oversee has about 2000 adult members in it. And we have about 4,000 people that come to the church.
Sid: So someone says to you “You don’t know how awful my spouse is?” What do you say to them?
Gary: Oh, there’s absolutely nothing anybody could tell me that would compare. So there’s just Sid the fact of the matter that everyone’s that’s listening today whatever their primary complaint is the word the word of God has the absolute victorious answer to prevail in that situation. And no one has the ability to stop the word of God. If only one person will stand in that authority of God’s word they will see God’s word prevail.
Sid: And what would you say to some one that says “Yeah I know that’s true, but I just feel too sorry for myself?”
Gary: Well, I just tell them look Jesus never felt sorry for Himself, he took upon himself the sin of the world and that’s exactly what love does, love takes no account, no account of a wrong suffered. And you know I believe that self-pity is one of the greatest sins that holds us captive in our own heart. And we really need to repent of being hurt people. Because of all our hurt is the rehearsal of an injury of our own life that we have been ill- treated or spoken ill against. The fact of the matter is the same blood that forgave us forgave them. And no one has the right to hold anybody in the captivity or the bondage of another person’s sin. They all must be forgiven just as we are.
Sid: I have your series your CD series of “What God Has Joined Together” plus the workbook. Tell me when you teach on this subject or when someone gets this CD series what type of reports are you getting?
Gary: Well, we’ve had several thousands of these series sold and every one of the families that have gone through this for a pre-marriage couple it’s critical because it set’s the foundation for how God orders a marriage in fulfillment of it in every aspect.
Sid: You know the premarital counseling is a few minutes before the minister that’s going to do the ceremony and that’s like… I mean I wish I had had of course it wouldn’t have done me any good I wasn’t a believer. But I wish I had been a believer and I had the series before I got married I could have avoided a lot of grief. But who is this really for, whose it designed for?
Gary: It’s for every married family, every couple it’s for every single person, it’s for every person that’s going through marriage problems if they’re in a divorce if they’re in a single life and their looking to get married because it sets the course of how God has offered marriage to work. And it is not the traditional way of the normal church reality, it is the word of God that prevails and prevails in every intimate environment of life. The only thing I know Sid is the anointing that is in that series has delivered so many families because it just brings right into clarity “What do I do now?” And it is right there, the Word of God shows you actually what to do. I have a little statement I did a woman’s conference with about 5,000 women one time and one of the words that’s used in Christian traditions is a word called “Subject yourself.” And most people don’t know what it means and I said to this women group, I said “Now look what does it really to just duck and let it just hit the man.” And I just had all the women duck and it was about five men in the congregation and boy did they stand out like a well thumb and it just works.
Sid: For those that are listening right now, your married but it’s not a good marriage what difference would this teaching make Gary?
Gary: Well, it will open up their eyes to see exactly what to do to bring the healing and the restoration in that home.