Sid Roth on April 12th, 2016

Henry Wright (1350) 2003

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Henry Wright, and I’m talking to him about his book “A More Excellent Way.” Which is a teaching on the spiritual roots of disease and most people don’t even have a clue about this. Henry I’ll tell you something that’s coming to mind right now, I know a Jewish believer in the Messiah who graduated from a what was called “The Word of Faith” or well I’ll mention it Rhema Bible College, a fine Bible college. She would go around saying “I’m coming down with divine health.” And I understood what she was saying and I agreed with what she was saying and she would say this all the time and yet she died of many diseases a little before her time. Now we can’t talk about her specifically but is it enough to go around saying “I’m coming down with divine health in the name of Jesus” and be healed?

Henry: Well that brings us up to a very difficult theological question. First of all it’s not confession alone that produces health even though confession is a form of meditation of what God has said. When you go back to disease prevention in Deuteronomy chapter 7 beginning in verse 11 through 15 in the Torah, here’s what God said through Moses. “If you’re a doer of the word and you practice the principles that I’ve taught you then I’ll put none of these diseases evil diseases of Egypt upon you but put them upon those that hate you.” And the key issue is this it’s not confession even though you know the truth shall make you free.

Sid: Well in Joshua God said “If you’ll mediate on God’s word.” It’s saying God’s word causes you to believe it.”

Henry: I know but let’s talk about some theology. Today in the name of Yeshua we say we do things. Jesus said “Whatever you ask in My name that shall I do and that shall the Father do.” And were going around with confession and using the name of Yeshua like guaranteed something is going to happen. Except we’ve got a problem we can’t take scripture out of context you can’t take promises out of context without responsibility. Because in Psalm 138 verse 2 part b it says this “He exalts His word even above His name.” And so if we can confess all we want but if we’re participating with sin in our life then confession. You know listen “Obedience is still better than sacrifice.” You can give the sacrifice of praise, you can give the sacrifice of confession and mediation but obedience to God’s word is first principal, repentance from dead works is first principal.

Sid: But give me some examples of some sins that people need to repent of before they’re going to get their healing.

Henry: Well I will say this to you from 1st John chapter 5 and I hope the audience is ready for this one. It says “If a man sees his brother sin a sin unto death he shall not pray for him.” All unrighteousness is sin and there is a sin that is not unto death. Now that brings up a big conversation you know over 50 or 60 major incurable diseases that I deal with ministering prayer, the gifts, the anointing, anointing with oil and prayer, whatever you want to is a waste of time because that disease is unto death because they have committed a sin that is unto death. Now I am told I shall not pray for them; well what do I do I bring them back to 1st John chapter 1 “If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.” Now what sins are sins that are unto death? You have not asked this specifically but I’m about to tell you.

Sid: Well I sure was thinking it I was waiting for you to come up for air but that’s okay go ahead.

Henry: Most Christians don’t want to think this way. Most believers don’t want to think about responsibility for sin they don’t want to go here so I’m in rough territory so you pray for me because if somebody comes to me…

Sid: Listen we need some answers go for it.

Henry: And the answers are found in God’s word and if somebody comes to me with over 60 incurable diseases I know those diseases are unto death because they have participated with a sin that’s unto death and I shall not pray for them. But I can do is disciple them, bring them to a place of recognition to bring them to repentance so what Yeshua paid for us at the cross will now work for them. And key sins that are sins unto death Number 1 is: unforgiveness. How do I know that? Because it says in Mark 11:25 and 26 in the King James Version it says this “If you from your heart do not forgive your brother his trespass neither Your Father which is in heaven forgive you yours.” If I can show a person that behind this major incurable disease is a sin issue that needs to be repented for but if they have unforgiveness in their heart towards any person living or dead, then I’ve got a problem I want God to forgive them. But God has said “I’ll forgive you in relationship to how you forgive others” because we’re asking God to have mercy on us but we’re not showing mercy to our brother. This is a sin unto death because God intends for us to be a forgiving people.

Sid: Okay, we know about that so just in case someone needs a clarification there are sins unto death but if someone repents they will not be unto death is that what you’re saying?

Henry: What I’m saying is if we meet the conditions of how God has told us to deal with our lives and we’re become doers of the word again. See back in the Torah in Deuteronomy chapter 28 it’s so very clear “If you will be a doer of the word all of these blessings shall come upon you.”

Sid: But Henry there are so many Christians that are mature enough to know about the unforgiveness as you but they’re still in their diseases, what are some of the other bases’ that have to be touched.

Henry: Well they may know righteousness but are they really practicing it?

Sid: You mean if they say I have forgiven someone but any chance they have a chance to slam that person they really just deceive themselves.

Henry: Well conversion is of the heart not of the intellect.

Sid: Woe! You’re getting deep on me now.

Henry: (Laughing) You know I can give mental ascent to a God Sid but it doesn’t mean I have a true heart conversion. And there are blocks to healing in the book “The More Excellent Way.” There’s not only roots to disease listed but there’s 33 blocks to healing that have to be recognized. I suppose what I’m really saying is “Do we really know how God thinks?” Because how God thinks is the best that we can be in our own thought process that’s called the mind of Christ.

Sid: But wait a second I have to go back to unforgiveness forget the other 32. But you’re saying that someone could intellectually forgive but not forgive in their heart. What if they’re deceived and they think that they have forgiven and they haven’t? Is that why a lot of people die that should not?

Henry: Well I have a litmus test. I ask a person who I believe… they say “Well I have forgiven them” but I see the disease is still in their life. And I say when you think about that person you see their face in your minds heart and I use their name do you have a feeling on the inside of you that is still there that rises up the minute I use their name? If they say “Yes” they have not forgiven from the heart.

Sid: Hm. Do you think that… I’m going to do it right now, do you think it’s a salvation issue, forget this life?

Henry: Well…

Sid: (Laughing) I set you up.

Henry: It’s a salvation issue there’s two sides to this you don’t have to be sinless to obtain heaven as you know it’s still by faith. But what is in our lives here you see that’s what it says in Isaiah chapter 5 Sid “My people have gone into captivity because they have enlarged herself and opened up her mouth with a bout measure and has swallowed their great and famous up into it.” And that’s addressed to covenant people, so the issue is this I don’t think they’ve lost their salvation I don’t think it’s a salvation issue. I think that salvation is more than being born again and most Christians don’t understand that.

Sid: My goodness we just keep opening one can of worms after another. But let’s just go back to something we can deal with. I want to deal with unforgiveness someone that says “I know God says I should forgive therefore I have intellectually forgiven that person. When I think a bad thought I’ll even pray for them but I know that I have these bad thoughts how do I get rid of it I do want to forgive them, how do I get rid of it Henry?”

Henry: Well first of all people don’t understand that what was in the other person that victimized them wasn’t even them. Paul taught us that in Roman’s chapter 7 very clearly. And our fallacy in forgiveness is this that we’ve made the person sin. Now the person may have sin but they’re not sin and we’ve made the person evil along with the evil they did to us. So when God saved me I had lots of stuff in me that wasn’t right, I was a sinner. And God saw past my sin and saw Henry and wanted him. We must have that heart in forgiveness that we don’t judge people according to their sins but we judge them according to what God saw in them from the foundation of the world. But many people stumble over people’s failures, well if God stumbled over my failures He would have rejected me. But aren’t we supposed to think like God in this area? People that need to forgive you have a right to hate sin, you even have the right to hate the sin in the person but we do not have the right to hate the person and that’s the big issue.

Sid: Cancer? Give me an example of someone that was healed and the cause.

Henry: Cancer of course on “It’s Supernatural” your show the lady with the face cancer when she dealt with self-hatred.

Sid: But many people have not heard that testimony, you can say that again.

Henry: I can say it again, when she came to our “For My Life Program” and she had cancer on her face. And when she repented for participating with the sin of self-hatred sincerely from her heart and had lied to her for all of these years and she had become one with it. And her spirituality and her psychology and the disease was the fruit of it and when she repented of it. In that very day the cancer fell off of her face and on to the floor and today she’s well. And other people with cancer we’ve dealt with cancer of the uterus ovarian cancer, where a person hated their feminity, they hated being a female. Maybe their daddy said “I wish I had a boy baby whatever when they made their peace that they were female. Male and female created He them when they made the peace with themselves about their femininity God is right there to restore to them the cleanness and help in those areas. Brain tumors, fibroid tumors are rooted in bitterness and self-bitterness. The big issue is this when we have bitterness for example our body creates toxins, those toxins destroy the centuries of our cells allowing cancer to get a foothold any time we want. Not only that because most anxiety disorders that I deal with are in fear 1st John 4:18 says “There is no fear in love.” So you’ve not been loved perfect that there’s a type of fear that comes and that releases a destruction of the immune system and thereby you can become what is called cancer-prone.

Sid: Hold that thought Mishpochah we’re out of time again…


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Sid Roth on April 4th, 2016

Tedd Tripp

Sid: My guest by way of telephone at her home is the producer of the Messianic Vision Radio Broadcast Janie DuVall. I wanted to bring you in on a little discussion we had just before we did this interview with Dr. Tedd Tripp about his book entitled “Shepherding a Child’s Heart.” And Janie I said to you that this is not from a Spirit Filled approach there’s no physical healings, there’s no encounters with Jesus, there’s no people going to heaven. And as a matter of fact, I mean I can’t get enough of the things of the Spirit so maybe we should scrap this interview and what did you say?

Janie: Well you know the thing is I want the same thing you do; I want to see miracles, I want to see people raised from the dead, I love interviewing people on that you interview people on that but I want my children to see that too, but the thing is sometimes in the Charismatic circles we’re just…we’re not realizing that there’s some practical and scriptural ways that we have to train our children and teenagers so they will see these things.

Sid: Okay look you read this book “Shepherding a Child’s Heart” were there things your personally doing wrong that you got checked on so to speak when you read this book?

Janie: Oh you had to ask (Laughing). Why do you want the list?

Sid: No just one.

Janie: Oh boy “Well, I hate to say it but sometimes I was putting guilt on my children and…by just the things that I would say to try to get them to do what I wanted them to do, I mean that’s really manipulation. And he had the whole thing with this book is about the attitude of the heart. So it wasn’t only my children’s heart but it was checking my heart; he talks about things that are very scriptural. A lot coming from the book of Proverbs and it’s really on wisdom.

Sid: Yeah but you’ve read lots I think you’ve probably read every book on children knowing you, so who needs another book on shepherding children?

Janie: Yeah but you know I want my children…I don’t want them just to look pretty and look nice and that’s the thing a lot of parents are making sure their children behave right or have the right education but we’re really not checking their heart so how could we really expect them to be on fire for the Lord if their heart is not right but they’re looking good on the outside? And that’s what’s different about this book.

Sid: Well you know a thought that’s coming to me Janie as we’re discussing this is as you know I talk a great deal about the One New Man the Jew and the Christians coming together as One New Man in Yeshua, in Jesus. But you know even before that’s going to happen we’ve got to come together as a body. And the charismatic need the fundamentalists and the fundamentalists need the charismatics and we need, we all need Yeshua the King of the Jews. Thanks Janie.

Janie: Thank you.

Sid: I have on the telephone Dr. Ted Tripp he’s Senior Pastor of Grace Fellowship Church in Hazelton, Pennsylvania. Recently we got a hold of his book “Shepherding the Child’s Heart.” And Ted I’ve been going round and round with the producer of my radio broadcast whether we should interview you or not it’s different than what we normally talk about on this broadcast. But the consensus is that we should do this. So for starters tell me what you mean by the title “Shepherding a Child’s Heart?”

Tedd: Well the title really is taken from the scripture Proverbs chapter 4 says “Above all else guard your heart for the heart is a wellspring of life.” We live out of our heart and it’s out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. And many times parent’s can get focused on changed behavior and there’s many things people can do to change behavior. But really in a Biblical vision what we’re trying to produce is a change in the heart. Let me give you an illustration. I observed a lady one day in the airport she had a four year old daughter who was very demanding and petulant and the child was wanting this and that from her mother and the mother was clearly exasperated. I was watching carefully from behind my newspaper to see how this mother was going to respond. And all at once she pulled this amazing power play on this child. She turned on this child she said “I’ve had it with you I’m sick of being your mother I don’t want to be your mother any more I quit go find someone else to be your mother and she gather all of her things together and she went and sat at the far end at the gate. And this little girl looked around at all of these adults and the only person she knew there was mother and so she went over and tried to make peace with mother. “I’m sorry mommy.” “Go away I don’t know you who child are you?” I’m sorry mommy, go away I’m going to call the police leave me alone.” And it was at that point that my flight was called and I left that area. But it was a powerful illustration of attempt on the part of a parent to try to change behavior. Now it’s one of those illustrations that leaves a knot in your stomach because you wonder if the cure was not worse than the disease. But the fact is this mother was trying to manipulate the behavior of the child and she was successful at it. She pulled a power play that got the behavior that she wanted she got a compliant child in the bargain but of course at a very great cost in terms of relationship with that child.

Sid: Now I can see how a non-Christian would use a technique like that to be candid with you I got saved when I was 30 years of age and in my family they used that kind of manipulation on me and far grosser than your little illustration. But do Christian families use that same type of manipulation?

Tedd: Sure I think Christian families do all sorts of things to control and constrain behavior. They might use bribery, “Let’s see you’ve got 15 stickers if you get 5 more stickers we’re going to ice cream.” Or they might appeal to their children emotionally “It just makes me so sad when I see the way you fight over your toys. I’ve no joy in my life I thought having children would be wonderful I had no idea what it would be like.” And they’re trying to manipulate the child emotionally or they might even bring Jesus in to the picture. You know Jesus can see right through the roof into the family room what do you think Jesus thinks of what’s going on here? That’s not a bad question if asked for the proper reason but sometimes that question can be raised with no true evangelical purpose of all the only purpose is Jesus is the heavy artillery and I’m trying to produce change in the child’s behavior at this moment and Jesus is the tool of manipulation. Or the parents might threaten their children “You don’t even want to know what will happen if I come up those stairs one more time but it’ll be messy it might be on the news,” you know and they’re threatening the children. There are just a whole range of ways that people try to control and constrain behavior. In my point in the book “Shepherding the Child’s Heart” is that all of those efforts misfire because they don’t address the wellspring of life. The wellspring of life is the heart.

Sid: You know I have to believe that a whole lot of books that Christian parents read that are more psychology then biblical and even many that are biblical don’t address the real thing that parents are to address the heart of the child. I’m a grandfather and so it’s not totally relevant to me but boy I wish I had this when my daughter was young. You give an example in your book that in many examples of things I find fascinating even though I’m a grandfather you have an example of two children fighting over toys I mean yeah that happens all the time. And most parents the first thing they ask is “Well who had it first?” Because in the sense of fairness but why is that wrong?

Tedd: Well I think that “Who had it first” really misses the issue because who had it first that makes it an issue simply of justice or supposed justice at that moment who had it first at that moment had the right to keep. But the fact is 2 children fighting over the toy I’ve got 2 selfish children on my hand; the one child seeing his brother or sister is enjoying the toy ought to say “You go ahead and play with it I wouldn’t think of taking it from you’re enjoying it I’ll play with something else.” The other one seeing his brother or sister would enjoy the toy if he’s going to truly love others before himself ought to say “You go ahead and play with it you would enjoy it I’ll play with something else.” You see I don’t just have a victim and a perpetrator I’ve got 2 selfish children on my hands, I’ve got 2 children who are both self-centered and their both concerned with themselves and their own issues and their own delights. At this moment they feel that they would be delighted by having the toy that the other child has and when we address it simply by giving the toy to the child who had the good fortune or speed to get the toy first we really miss the opportunity to address the heart.

Sid: We’re training them to do what the world does and that is me first.

Tedd: Exactly that is exactly right we’re training them in wrong ways in fact I would even take that another step further then and make this argument that whatever constrains behavior trains the heart. Behavior or the heart is trained by whatever constrains behavior. So for example when parents manipulate their children with shame many of us as adults are people who struggle with shame in our adult lives because we’re manipulated with shame as children. Or we’re manipulated with fear of man “What would people think?” And we struggle with the fear of man as adults, or we’re manipulated with guilt and we’re the kind of people that feel guilty even when we haven’t sinned against somebody we’ve know we’ve disappointed their expectations we feel guilty. And those very things that are used to manipulate our behavior ultimately train our heart and we end up reflecting those things in our adult life.

Sid: Ted let me ask you a bottom line question you have children how’d you’re children turn out?

Tedd: (Laughing) Well I have….

Sid: Tell me what the 3 are doing right now?

Tedd: I have 3 children now one is a contractor and he has a wife and 3 kids. I have a son who is a currently managing Shepherd Press the publisher of “Shepherding a Child’s Heart.” He really had ambitions of going to graduate school and he would like to be a professor he loves the Lord and all of our children are truly seeking God and love God. And I have a daughter who is a school teacher she’s married and has no children she’s just been married for years and she teaches school she particularly specializes in children of learning disabilities.

Sid: Do they all love the Lord?

Tedd: Yes they do, they do but you know what…

Sid: You know what we’re out of time….

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Sid Roth on April 1st, 2016

Dr Mark Gabriel (1303) 2002

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Dr. Mark Gabriel, that is not his real name. I’m speaking to him in a city in Florida. Let me tell you Mark’s background and maybe you’ll understand why we’re doing this. He was a professor of Islamic history of the most prestigious Islamic university in the world. He not only has a Master’s but he has a Doctorate Degree in Islamic Studies. He is a man that was raised to even be an Imam in a mosque in Egypt. He had as a professor at one of the universities a man that is in prison in the United States he is that blind cleric that you’re probably familiar with that masterminded the first World Trade Center attack. He had some interesting things to say about this man, and it’s really giving me a lot of insight. I just want you to know… you know Dr. Mark and myself are just having a conversation, you just eavesdrop and just pray that the Lord would give me the wisdom to ask the questions you want to ask. On yesterday’s broadcast I couldn’t help remarking that the same thing that happened to Mohammed when he started out loving the Jewish people and when he found out the Jewish people and the Christians rejected his religion that love turned to hate, and he had many hateful writings. That’s why there seems to be such a contradiction in the Quran. It’s one group of writings you could say Islam is peace loving, and another group of writings in the same book it’s hateful. So that counts for it but it’s so similar what happened in Christianity. Many of the church fathers read the scriptures like we have today and saw God’s love for the Jewish people, saw that God wanted Jewish people to become believers in the Messiah, and as a result reached out to the Jewish community and when the Jewish community, and they should have read in Romans where it says   there’s spiritual scales on the eyes of Jewish people. When the Jewish people were doing exactly what God said was going to happen, their love turned to hate. That wasn’t God’s love because God’s love never turns to hate God is love, but man’s love when rejected turns to hate. That’s what happened to Mohammed, that’s what happened to Martin Luther. The Encyclopedia Judaica said “The whole plan of Hitler short of the gas chamber itself was outlined in sermons by Martin Luther, so it’s very similar. You wanted to comment on that Dr. Mark Gabriel?

Mark: You see I would like to say to you the reason why I do hate religion, why I do not have no respect for religion, or the spirit of religion because the reason of that spirit, what this spirit did during the history is specific to the Jewish community; even in the Middle East or even in the West. In the Middle East it’s done by the spirit of religion of Isalm, and in the West itwas done by spirit of religion of Christianity. I just wanted to say to you I was in Johannesburg in South Africa and I had debate, I had the debate with a Muslim scholar his name was Dr. Doy. He’s the president of the Islamic department in Rau University in Johannesburg. One of his questions asked me of the reasons why I convert from Islam and I become a Christian? So one of these reasons I told him because I was sure and I had seen in the history of Islam to me it was like an ocean of blood. When Muslims they stop killing and fighting, the non-Muslim they tend to each other and killing each other, so he reminds that “But the history of the Christianity it wasn’t more beautiful than the Islamic history. There is bloodshed there…” So I…

Sid: By the way I have heard on secular news programs where they talk about Islam. That’s what they bring up. They say “Listen I can pull scripture out of context from the Christian Bible and from the Jewish scriptures and show the violence of God.” So that’s the argument that they use, what would you say to that?

Mark: I said to him “You see I’m not going to judge Muslims by what they did during the history, or judging Christians by what they did during the history. I’m going to judge Islam by what the scriptures of Islam teach and said, and I’m going to judge Christians by what the Bible said.” I told him “I challenge you if you can just bring up one single verse in the New Testament that explains Jesus Christ was commanding his disciples to go and to kill and to fight in the name of Christ. But at the same time I can take you back to the Quran and I will show you that the whole chapter in the Quran, the title of the chapter ‘The Spoils of War,’ and another chapter titled it’s called ‘The Fighting.’” So I told him that Quran does teach and command to go and to kill and to die and to fight in the name of Allah, but Jesus Christ He wasn’t did something like that at all. You will find no one single verse in the Bible you see that tells us Jesus He command His disciples. So I told him “Man… The heart of man is almost deceitful. Man without the Spirit of God and the love of God he will be the most worst and the most aggressive person in the world.” So this is why I do believe that Quran it wasn’t really the word of God because of the way he teach about hatred, about killing, about destroying, and this was what the Bible tells me that this is the reason for the false prophet, this is the fruit of the false prophets.

Sid: Let me ask you a question Dr. Mark Gabriel. What is, and this I believe we must know, what is the ultimate goal of Islam?

Mark: The ultimate goal of Islam that… Mohammed when he came he explained that he didn’t present a new religion to the world. He is the final prophet of the prophets that was sent by God. He came with the final revelation with the final testament. He said in “The entire world must submit to that revelation.” And he said “The ultimate of Quran is to see the world submitted to the revelation of Islam, practicing Islam, converted to Islam.” This is the why Islamic law gives 3 options to the people who didn’t convert to Islam. Islam gives 3 options for the Muslim state to take it outside the Islamic world to the non-Muslims and to say to them:

  1. “Okay we present this Islamic religion for you. On the same conversion are you going to believe?” If the person converts to Islam he will be Muslim, he will be free, he will be okay.
  2. “But if you, as a Jew, you refuse to become a Muslim, the second requirement you have to pay or choice, you have to pay tax, then we can let you to practice your religion and to be alone with yourself and your religion.”
  3. “But if you’re going refuse to pay a tax to the Islamic state you will be killed.”

Sid: What if you happen to be Jewish or Christian and you proselytize, you tell people about Jesus, or you tell people about Judaism, what would happen to you in a Muslim country?

Mark: Yeah this is a very good question. In Islamic country the entire world heard about this Edward who was caught in Afghanistan who was captured by Taliban. They choose by Taliban government that they are preaching the gospel in Afghanistan. They was also arrested almost 15 or 16, I forgot who was accepted Jesus by the mission of this workers there. However, it was 2 American ladies with this group there. Edward was watching why these people captured, why these people put into prison, why these people going to be judged by the Islamic court there in Kabul. You see according to the Islamic law a Christian or Jews they are not allowed to preach their religion in the Islamic land, or the Islamic world. If they going to catch they will be killed.

Sid: Does the Quran permit Muslims to lie?

Mark: Yes the Quran does command Muslims to lie in specific circumstances. Also the Hadith because there are 2 sources for the Muslims believe which means the Quran and the Hadith. The Quran is the word of Allah, the God of Islam who was revealed by the angel Gabriel to Mohammed, and the Hadith is the books record what Mohammed said and what he did in his life. So the Quran and the Hadith both they require and they command Muslims to lie in specific circumstances. Like in the war a Muslim can lie to the non-Muslims, like if a Muslim living in a foreign country and it’s not run by Islamic law he can lie if that lie can help him to avoid persecution…

Sid: Let me ask you another question. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is a loving Father. Is there any description of Allah being a loving father in the Quran?

Mark: This is very hard to find something like that in the Quran. Only you can find the Quran use the word of love, or loving when the Quran speaks about the Muslims he’s going to the war to fight for the cause of Allah. Like many verses says (speaking in Arabic) “Allah he loves the people who go and fight for his cause.”

Sid: Hmm.

Mark: Many verses describe that and use the word loving.

Sid: Well we’re out of time right now.

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Sid Roth on March 25th, 2016


Sid: Well I’ll tell you what I was red hot for the Messiah, but I had such a problem with my unsaved Jewish family. One by one every member of my family became a believer in the Messiah except one, my father. You have to understand my father was born in Poland. He tells me the story of how he would walk by a church with his father, my grandfather, and my grandfather would spit at the church because the church would represented the people. The people represented the most anti-Jewish, anti-Semitic people in the history of the Jewish people that had in the name of the cross, in the name of Christianity had persecuted, and murdered, and butchered so many Jewish people.

Then picture this, this is when my father was a traditional Jewish man. The last thing in the world that he could imagine would be his son being a believer in Jesus. Not just a believer in Jesus an outspoken believer in Jesus, and not just an outspoken believer in Jesus but on radio and television, and the front page of a major newspaper in his hometown in Washington DC.

I tell you something, the shame my father felt when he would go to the synagogue and he would hear people talking about me. He couldn’t comprehend it. He tried to bribe me, he offered me any amount of money I wanted. He said “I’ll put you in business I’ll do anything if you’ll give up your faith in Jesus.”

Then my sister became a believer in the Messiah, and then her husband, a Jewish CPA became a believer in the Messiah. Then the children became believers in the Messiah, and my wife became a believer in the Messiah, and my daughter became a believer in the Messiah. My mother became a believer in the Messiah, but my father he held out really.

I learned something about faith, and if you’ll catch what I am about to tell you it will transform your life. I learned how important it is to first of all find out what God’s will is. Now I have to tell you I didn’t understand it to the degree that I understand it now, but I’m going to give you something that will cause a lightbulb to go on. Have you ever heard it quoted “You and your house will be saved?” I’ve heard it quoted and I say “Wait a second that was one specific man the Philippian jailer. You can’t make a doctrine on that one verse.” I used to get really upset when people would say “Oh it’s God’s will that you and your family be saved. Look, he said to the Philippian jailer ‘You and your house’” “No! No! No! he said it to him not me and my house, not you and your house! Him not universal!” That’s because I didn’t even understand my own Jewish background.

You see in the Old Covenant, and by the way they understood it in the New Covenant. In the Old Covenant at Passover in Exodus God clearly says “A lamb for the house.” He doesn’t say “A lamb for a person,” He says “A lamb for a Mishpochah, a lamb for a family” that’s God’s principal. That’s what was meant when they said “You and your house there’s a lamb for your house Philippian jailer.” That’s why when Cornelius the first Gentile was saved he gathered all his family but he even brought more people into his house, he even brought some of his friends into his house too.” That’s why Rahab, remember that scarlet cord, what does that represent? The blood of the lamb hanging from her window. What did the spy say “Everyone of your family that’s in your house under that scarlet thread is going to be saved?”

Do you realize you can hold onto God’s promise for your family? It’s a lamb for a house. You got it? A lamb for a house. So every member of my family was saved except my dad.

I remember talking to my mother one time, even after she became a believer in the Messiah and I said “Mom, dad’s going to be saved.” She said “Don’t say that.” Now you have to understand my mother was a classic Jewish mother. Why did she say “Don’t say that?” Because she knew my dad better than I did, and she knew it was impossible for him to be saved and she didn’t want me to be disappointed. So that’s why she said “Don’t say that.” I remember, and I can’t explain why, but I remember so clearly right out of my inner most being came out “Don’t you ever say that!” I mean I said that with such power “Don’t you ever say that dad’s going to be saved!”

I remember where ever I would go I would say this. I would go to speak for a group and I would say “Pray for my dad he’s going to be saved.” I said that so much I don’t know whether I believed it at first or not. I know I was saved, I didn’t realize the foundational scripture that I just pointed out to you at the time, but even without realizing that something in me “He’s going to be saved.” I kept saying it and I kept saying it and I don’t really believe I believed it initially. I mean if you knew my dad you couldn’t have believed it initially, trust me.

I remember one Christian man that was a friend of mine. There was a restaurant that had like a counter and my father like to use to go to that counter and sip his coffee and talk to the people next to him. One day a man sat next to him who knew me, he was a believer in Jesus. He figures out that’s my father and he starts witnessing to him and my father started screaming at him so loud that he ran out of that place and he said “Sid I never bumped into anything like your dad in my life.” It was impossible, I tell you it was impossible for my dad to be saved, but somehow I kept saying “I know my father’s going to be saved.” I said it so much that I convinced myself of it. I really did.

When you say the word of God enough it doesn’t make anything happen. You can say it till you’re blue in the face, but something supernatural happens in your spirit and you begin to believe it, and once you believe it it happens. You follow? We’ve been looking at this confession thing wrong, we’re thinking the confession is what causes someone to be healed. No, no, no, the confession finally gets it into your spirit the truth that God has healed all your diseases and forgiven all of your sins, and it’s a lamb for a house. I mean you say that out loud till you believe it.

I’ll tell you something fewer people would die today of dread diseases if they would stand on God’s word. Listen you’re standing on your experiences I know because I have good friends that have dread diseases that have stood on the word of God and died. So I could make a new doctrine and say “You can’t stand on the word of God and live” but I’ll never do that. I’ll say “I don’t understand that’s what I will say,” but I will say “Let every man be a liar God’s word is true.”

God is healing people right now. God’s telling me that there are people with back problems and tell you if you’re driving pull off to the side of the road get out and you start praising God and bow down before Him and you’ll see that pain is gone. There are people with neck problems if you’ll start moving your head you’ll see the pain is gone. I tell you there are people in the spine, I’m telling you in the spine some of you are hearing cracking sounds right now in your spine.

I’m going to tell you something even more important than that, every time I do this I am not doing this on my own initiative, I’m doing this because God Himself is speaking to me and I’m a good Jewish secretary. I’m speaking back what God is speaking and I’m seeing that there is the heavens have literally been ripped in two over your head right now for healing. I’m telling you whatever you need “ Bless the Lord oh my soul, forget not all His benefits He’s forgiven all of my sins, He’s healed all of my diseases.” You say that with me “He has healed…” oh it’s so strong in backs. Oh there’s something so wonderful going on the people that are literally almost crippled from the pain, it’s gone. Arthritis I curse you in Jesus name. I command you to get off of God’s people! There are almost knots I see it in peoples bodies that are being shrunk right now in the name of Jesus. I tell you whether I mention your condition or not Jesus paid the price, He’s the healer I’m just peeking in a little as to what God’s doing in the spirit. You stand on God’s promises, you say it until you are absolutely convinced and that from the invisible world will come into the visible.

These body parts, I’ve got several friends that have been to heaven and seen the room with body parts and we are just almost, literally one breath away from someone getting a new heart, a new kidney, a new leg, a new finger, and you and I are going to be a part of it. Why not now? All things are possible to those who believe.

There’s some people that are discouraged. There’s such a presence of God right now that discouragement I bind you in Jesus name, I command you off. I pray that You give this person right now give them back their first love let them be like a little child again, new beginning I speak into your life. Brand new beginning in Jesus name, in Jesus name.

But I keep hearing backs, oh it’s so strong. Our time is slipping away but praise God. I let Him interrupt for a commercial anytime. That was a word from our Sponsor – God He is our Sponsor and He’s the only that deserves to speak.

Anyway with my dad I was there in the hospital I received a call my father was dying. My sister was there, we were in intensive care there’s no hope. I said “Dad, mom said heaven was a wonderful place. She’s there now. Would you like to be there?” He lost his voice by this time but he could grunt a little bit and it sounded like he said “Yes.” “Then you’ve got to believe in Jesus. Do you want to make Him your Lord and Savior?” It sounded to me like he said “Yes,” but my sister Shirley she’s a schoolteacher. She walks up to me and says “I did not hear him.” I said “Shirley quiet. It’s dad that’s good for him.” “I did not hear him.” “Dad do you say that Jesus is your Messiah and Lord and you’re repenting of your sins and He’s forgiving you of all of your sins?” I tell you without a voice he belted out “Yes!” My sister started jumping up and down in intensive shouting like a mad woman. I mean she’s a refined dignified school teacher. “Shirley what are you doing?” “I told God I’d jump for joy when dad received the Lord and he just received the Lord.” All things are possible, it’s a lamb for the house.

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Sid Roth on March 18th, 2016


Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Dr. Michael Brown President of Fire School Ministry in Pensacola, Florida and New York City, and in the fall the Pensacola School will move to Charlotte, North Carolina. I’m interviewing him this week on his book that is sure to stir up a lot of controversy and I believe that he didn’t write it for that sake he wrote it because this is what the Spirit of God is speaking to many people, but not many people are willing to be up front with this because when you’re up front sometimes you’re standing alone. The title of the book is “Revolution in the Church” subtitle “Challenging the Religious System with a Call for Radical Change.” What do you mean by radical change do you mean scrap what we have and start over?

Michael: I mean radical in two ways radical meaning large scale wholesale dramatic conflict and radical meaning back to the roots biblical. And what we’re doing if we’re following some map somewhere and the map doesn’t have any of the latest roads and it got us down the wrong way because the map is 30 years outdated well the things you do is to get yourself a new map and then if your “Oops I made some wrong turns I’m 50 miles out of the way.” You don’t keep going the wrong way you make a U-turn you go back and get things fixed. I’m not talking about reinventing the wheel, I’m not talking about scraping everything that’s gone before, I’m saying let’s be honest we’ve got some blind spots here. We’ve got some very serious lax there’s a reason why we’ve got 24 hour gospel television, 24 hour gospel radio, best selling Christian books, mega churches all around the country, well known Christian leaders in every facet of society and yet America continues to have a steady moral decline. Things that are acceptable in the homes of believers today would have been absolute abominations in the homes of our unsaved grandparents 2 generations ago, something is fundamentally wrong not just with our message but with our understanding of what church is and what it means and what it means to be a follower of Jesus.

Sid: And your book by the way explains things that unfortunately too few Christians understand. For instance, let’s talk a little bit about chapter 3 and the next few chapters, “The Church is Not a Building and the Family is not a House” explain that.

Michael: Well I use those terms “The Family is not a House” to try to draw people with the wrong terminology there. If I said “I want you to meet my family” and then I come and show you my house, I show you the yard and show you the…

Sid: I want to meet your family not your building.

Michael: Right because families are moms and dads, and sons and daughters, and brothers and sisters. Well… “Oh Sid we’ve got a beautiful new church, oh Sid we moved into the area so that we could be near the church, oh I go to church regularly.” See if the church is a building then it’s something I go to…

Sid: How about this the church is the house of God.

Michael: Well if I look at a physical building somehow it’s the house of God. See here’s the problem when Tyndale translated the Bible into English 500 years ago and he translated the New Testament into English and he came to the word ekklesia in Greek he properly translated it congregation. Jesus said “I’ll build my congregation. Jesus died for glorious congregation without spot and wrinkle.” What happened is the King James translated it’s one of the rules was use the all ecclesiastical words like church instead of congregation. And so now you have this misnomer that church can actually refer to a physical building as well. And as long as we have that mentality “I go to church.” As opposed “I am part of the church 24-7, we are the body, we are the congregation.” What happens is the major focus is going to be on a physical building and that we should meet together we should have meetings where we all come together as often as we can in small groups in homes and private fellowships and large corporate meetings I’m all for that I see it as the New Testament pattern. But we might say “We have a beautiful church” meaning we have a lovely building and it’s filled with dead men’s bones on the inside and society the world is not changed by someone going to church. We somehow think we get all dressed up or we come casual whatever the look is. We go to some building we sing a few songs, we collect an offering we preach a message we hear a message we go home we think that’s going to threaten the devil. That doesn’t threaten the devil in fact if we’re happy he’s happy because we’re now pacified with our religious fix. But if we see ourselves instead of the emphasis going to a meeting we see that we part of a revolutionary world changing movement that was birthed into this world by the Son of God. And we have a mission to go and change the world everything changes. And…

Sid: But in America and as you so well point out in your book it’s the whole professional and audience mentality versus everyman a worker.

Michael: You see here’s where we miss it so greatly the civil rights movement had a great impact on America and brought about a lot of positive change because people did not merely go to a civil rights meeting they became part of a movement and they all went out and got involved. Or if you look at something that’s brought negative change for America there’s more freedom right now in your average secular high school for a homosexual to freely speak. A homosexual teacher about his or her views on homosexuality and things like that than there is for an evangelical believer to talk about God and the scriptures. How is it that there is more freedom of speech for homosexuals than for Christians true believers in our schools? The answers very simple Homosexuals who we pray for and want to see saved and made whole and made right by God the homosexuals do not go to a gay meeting one hour a week, they are not gay one hour a week they lead a gay lifestyle. And because of that even though they are a tiny percent of the society they have great impact. Here in America half of American’s attend church services at least once a month. A third go to a religious services once a week and yet we’re not changing America, America is changing us. Why? Because we have this mentality that the church is a building that I go to and I put my money into it and if we can build a nice enough building then somehow we’re doing something for God or we’ve accomplished something we’ve arrived. And then in that setting I go and I’m now part let’s say I’m not in leadership I’m now part of the audience. I’ve heard preachers say this from the pulpit many times well meaning “All of you out there in the audience.” Well if there’s the audience then the one preaching the leader that’s the performer. So I perform I put on a good show, you go there you like the show you give some money you know and you got it…well I like the show better over there because they let you out early yeah, but the childcare over here’s better and yeah but there’s no parking and we’re kind of like we’re choosing which restaurant connoisseur Christians in a gourmet gospel. And we wonder why things are not being changed when the fact is audiences don’t change the world, audiences don’t start revolutions, audiences are not a threat to the devil. About the best you can get from an audience is active audience participation. God puts leaders in the body and leaders have important roles but there’s no clergy, laity distinction.

Sid: Well where did that come from?

Michael: Well that’s just a latter tradition and in this case Gentile tradition that came in, Jewish tradition went one way Gentile tradition went another way both in many ways departed from scripture.

Sid: So what was the what was the scriptural tradition?

Michael: The scripture tradition is that every believer is a priest. See the reformation addressed this but then it really didn’t live it out because he he’s still going to a building and the people walk up like 10 – 20 feet to this high lofty pulpit and have special titles and have these long robes. Well hang on, if they’re wearing robes how come everybody’s not wearing robes if we’re all priests where nobody should be wearing them. In other words we all have equal access to God, we are all equally part of the body we are all equally…

Sid: Yes but they have time to study and keep themselves sanctified where were working, we’re parents, we’re husbands or wives, we’re trying to get enough money so that we can retire. We don’t have time for things like this Mike it’s a busy life.

Michael: Well see there are two sides to this. First leaders that are called to the ministry of the word ought to spend a lot of time in prayer and in the word so that they can equip God’s people with the time they’ve had with God to help them teach and instruct so that God’s people can now go out and do God’s work. It’s not the role of the pastor…

Sid: Can’t I just give money to someone and then I don’t have to do God’s work?

Michael: Well not according to the scripture (Laughing) you see everyone is called to be a disciple. See just say “I am a Christian” doesn’t cut it. Saying I am a believer that term occurs 26 times in the New Testament 13 times in Acts we’re called Believers. That’s good but if I tell someone on my job I’m a believer they might say “Oh yeah I am too I call the psychic hotline every day I’m a real believer.” So the word that separates us and it’s a very costly word it’s the word disciple every one of us is called to be a disciple of Jesus. That word…

Sid: I know the disciple of Jesus would ever call something that the scriptures condemn like a psychic hotline but go ahead.

Michael: Well you see we are called disciples in the New Testament that term occurs over 250 times. Over 25 times just in Acts we are called disciples, people should look in the mirror and say “I’m a disciple of Jesus.” What does that mean? I wonder if the mirror would talk back to us and say “Who are you fooling?” See if we’re disciples of Jesus then we have the same radical call that Peter and Matthew and the others did. No not be apostles, no not to write part of the New Testament but we are called in the same way to leave everything and join this radical revolutionary cause. And so much of our America gospel that just says “Well, what’s in it for you, or how you can just have a better life, or Jesus died to make you rich?” It’s not that every line of that is wrong and heretical, but the focus is wrong and heretical.

Sid: What’s the focus?

Michael: The focus is not how to save your life and how to have a better more prosperous life. The focus is how to give your life to go and change the world that’s the revolutionary calling of Jesus, that’s the normal New Testament faith. And what the world calls for fanaticism and much of the church calls extremism God calls normal. We need to get back to the understanding of the church being the family of God sent out into this world to make it an impact. Every believer is a priest and has access to God and that leaders are to be honored and appreciated and respected, but leaders do not stand over the believer between them and God as if they have access to God that believers don’t. Believers lead the way to lead the believers out to war to go out and change the world that is our revolutionary commission.

Sid: Mike we’re out of time.

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