Robert Heidler

Sid: We have a commandment in the word of God to make talmadim, to make disciples of all people. That means students of the word, that people can teach the word, can do what the word says. There is such a misunderstood are it’s called deliverance and I have Dr. Robert Heidler on the telephone right now. I’m speaking to him at his office; he’s Senior Pastor of Glory of Zion Outreach Center in Denton, Texas. Robert as you and I have been disgusting there is a shortage of people that are knowledgeable in the deliverance ministry; as a result many Christians walk around most of their life worried they have demons, or knowing they do and they want to be set free but they don’t know what to do; they read books and these books are so complex that you just want to throw your hands up and say “I just can’t handle this anymore.” We talked on yesterday’s broadcast that’s the way you must of felt, your first deliverance. However, God put a new mantle on you about 5 years ago that totally changed the way you approach deliverance. Out of curiosity, I know that you teach at Messianic Jewish Bible Schools, and you have a great love for Jewish believers in the Messiah; did you get a lot of your hands on experience to learn these things in your book from ministering at these Bible colleges?

Robert: Well Sid, yes actually we have taught deliverance at several Messianic schools, as guest teachers. It was really out of the process of putting those courses together that this book came.  What we saw was a lot of the principles you don’t really need someone else to take you through, in certain cases that’s important, but for most people if they just understood what gave the demon an opportunity to be there and how to get rid of it, they can walk themselves through the process of deliverance. We have seen that happen in person after person.

Sid: There’s so many topics in this and the thing I love about your books is ITs SIMPLE. It doesn’t need to be complex. You talk about a word “Strongholds.” Strongholds of the mind, strongholds of the heart; let’s talk about strongholds of the mind.

Robert: Well a stronghold is a fortress that Satan builds in your mind, or in your heart to try to protect his means of access. I think that’s the first thing we need to see is if someone is depressed by a demon we need to see what allowed that to happen. Because for a child of God it was never God’s intention for us to be oppressed by demons; there needs to be an opening where that demon found a way to get in. The key to deliverance is to find what that opening is, close it, and the demon has to leave. It’s not a matter of the demon manifesting, vomiting, and doing all sorts of things, it will just leave once you have taken away its right to be there. A stronghold is a part of Satan’s strategy to keep you from shutting off his acces.

Sid: Give me an example of some strongholds.

Robert: The clearest example of a stronghold that’s a stronghold of the mind; Satan will just plant one little thought in our minds that keeps us from dealing with an area of sin. For example, if a person has trouble with the area of temper and the Spirit of God begins to convict him; Satan will plant a thought “Well I know I shouldn’t lose my temper, but that’s just how I am.” Once the person has accepted that as true, it takes away any motivation to try to deal with the problem of his temper, and as long as he has that that gives Satan an access to bring destruction into his life.

Sid: That’s pretty diabolic the way he operates there. Give me another example of something that we might believe that is a lie that stops us from getting free.

Robert: There was a man I counseled with years ago and he had stronghold, he was getting ready to divorce his wife. Every time I would talk with him he would say “God doesn’t want me to be unhappy.” Then it was his excuse for divorcing his wife; that was a stronghold of the enemy.  There are many more things important to God in that man’s life than whether he was happy that particular moment, but as long as he held on to that stronghold he rushed headlong into a very destructive situation.

Sid: You know something that’s come into mind, I know several Christians that wanted a divorce and say “Well it wasn’t really a legal marriage in God’s eyes because we weren’t believers at the time we got married.” How’s that for a stronghold?

Robert: That is another stronghold. Usually a stronghold is one little phrase like that, but it’s like it comes up over… “That’s just how I am; I know I shouldn’t get drunk, but that’s just how I am; I know I shouldn’t be consumed by lust, but that’s how I am; I know I shouldn’t steal from my boss, but he doesn’t pay me enough so it’s okay.” There’s a little phrase like that that Satan plants in our minds that gives an excuse for sin. Once we have that in place the Holy Spirit can’t really convict us of sin and give us the power to overcome it because we won’t let that area of life to be dealt with.

Sid: But it’s almost like, not almost, it is a blind spot so how do we find out?

Robert: Well that’s part of the grace of God to come before God and say “Lord show me my blind spots.” In the book here I go through the process to find out what your strongholds are, and how to learn to be set free from them. If we can see where those blind spots are; if we can see where the strongholds are, then it’s very easy to be set free from the enemy’s oppression.

Sid: You talk about not just strongholds in the mind, but you talk about hard heart, strongholds of the heart, what do you mean by that?

Robert: Well sometimes a stronghold is not a thought, but it’s an attitude. It’s something that Satan plants in our heart. One of the clearest strongholds of the heart is a hardened heart, where it is just an unwillingness to change. The Spirit of God tries to convict you, and there’s just something that rises up inside that says “I will not.” That leaves the person open for tremendous tremendous oppression of the enemy. There was a woman in our church years ago who loved to gossip, and every time problems arose in the church they would usually trace back to her, and she would get on the phone and gossip. She was otherwise a Godly woman, she knew the word, she apparently loved the word, but when we would confront her about her gossiping she would get very angry and she would say “I have a right to say what I feel and nobody’s not going to tell me not to.” So She would never repent of that area; it was a hardened heart and her family went through continual problems with finances, and with health, and Satan was really able to just bring a lot of destruction into their lives. I think a lot of it is because she would not deal with that one area that God tried to deal with.

Sid: Give me an example of some areas that we should be suspicious if we have demonic involvement, what are some of the systems that might be demonic?

Robert: Well demons can afflict us in a lot of ways, one way is physically. If there is a persistent physical problem, particularly if the doctors can’t find a reason for it if there’s no medical explanation. Very often that is a demonic attack; they can attack us in our minds causing confusion and delusion. Mark 4 says “Satan can steal away the word.” There are people that can remember all of the latest computer processes, and the Major League scores, but cannot remember the Bible to save their lives. I mean Satan is literally stealing the word from their mind.

Sid: What about addictions?

Robert: Addictions are very often caused by demonic problems. A demon can work in addiction, in compulsion, that gives you strong urges you cannot resist.

Sid: Give me some other examples that might put us on alert that demons are involved.

Robert: Demons love to afflict our relationships. Sometimes in a relationship with your husband or wife you wake up one morning and your mind just feels clouded and you say something to your wife and you think “Why did I say that that didn’t come out the way I wanted it to.” You know you hurt her feelings and you don’t even know why you said it. Demons can work in ways that just disrupt relationships…

Sid: You know I’ve been at meetings where someone attacks me for a statement, and I say “I didn’t say that, and 2 or 3 people heard you say it, and 2 or 3 other people say ‘I didn’t hear you say it.’” That’s what you’re talking about.

Robert: Exactly, and demons can cause someone to hear not actually what was said. They can bring confusion; one of the most common things is depression. When someone is just walking along and they say “It’s something just comes over me it’s like a wave of depression.” They feel hopeless and they feel depressed, and when they stop and think about it they don’t even know what they’re depressed about.

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