Sid:  And as a matter of fact my guest Dr. Michael Brown illustrates someone that is red hot for the Messiah.  He’s an unusual believer in that he is red hot for the Messiah, hungers for the manifestation of God’s kingdom on earth, but he also is a scholar.  He’s President of Fire School of Ministry, has a PhD from New York University in near Eastern languages and literatures, he reads, rights or understands at least twelve Semitic languages, has a great deal if not most of the Old Testament memorized in Hebrew.  He’s considered by most, myself included the top scholar in the Messianic Jewish movement.  And on yesterday’s broadcast Mike we were talking about something that concerns me greatly that I am passionate over, I am passionate over Christians that have nights to honor Israel and Jews and Christians come together, and Christians in large numbers seem to have their heart towards Israel right now.  But there is a flip side in the over zeal to love Israel and maybe make up for 2,000 years of Christian anti-Semitism, the pendulum has gone too far comment on that.

Michael:  Yeah, it’s gone too far in that people don’t realize the number one priority in God’s sight is the salvation of Jewish people.  The present and ultimate future meaning the end of this age when there’s a national turning and the Messiah returns.  It’s wonderful to stand with Jewish people in the land to stand with Israel when it’s surrounded by hostile enemies, to demonstrate Christians love Israel, Christian’s support Israel, it’s the Christian thing to do we have a Biblical mandate, that’s wonderful.  But often there’s prayer for peace in Israel, but not for the salvation of Jewish people.  Often the only way to have the relationship with the rabbinic community is at the expense of the Messianic Jewish community, or to say listen you cannot mention Jesus name. You can do this, this, this but you can’t mention Jesus name.

Sid:  Or they also won’t allow a Messianic Jew at those bless Israel nights to come forward.  It’s kind of the reverse of what we read about Peter breaking his fellowship with Gentile believers when the Jewish believers came, it’s the flip side of it.

Michael:  You see a lot of Jewish believers will say hay this is okay because there’s larger things happening and we’re willing to take the backseat, but I’ve talked to some key leaders and I’ve said, “Let me ask you a question, would you welcome Paul there, would you welcome Peter there?”  Now there’s a brother that I know is heavily involved in the Christian Zionist Movement to pray for Israel, pray for Jerusalem movement, he was just at a large gathering with some of the top Israeli leaders and they had a Q & A time and he said, “We are concerned about the persecution of Messianic Jews in the land, we are concerned some of the recent things happening, what are you doing about it?”  And so behind the scenes some of these guys are using the platform that they have in an effective way and that’s tremendous, I thank God for that, but I keep raising the caution, “Where is the burden for the lost sheep of the House of Israel?”  Where is the burden that caused Paul unceasing anguish in his heart because his people were cut off from the Messiah?  Where is the concern that the rabbi, or the Israeli Ambassador that you’re sitting next to at this great event, where is your concern that he’s lost?  Now that’s not the place to evangelize, I understand that that’s a place to show unconditional Christian love and support for Israel, but I wonder are the Christians leaving that meeting, leaving those events so excited about Israel, so excited about the Jewish people, so excited about being together or are they saying “This is wonderful but somehow these precious people need to be saved.”

Sid:  I’m going to go a step further, there is a spirit that is trying to get on Christians that God himself has given a supernatural love for Israel that they eventually are going to so fall in love with the Jewish people that they will turn from Jesus, and this has actually happened already.  And you are either for Him or your against Him and if your for Him how in the world can you not tell that Jewish person that you love with the love of God about Jesus; that’s not love, that’s hate.

Michael:  Yeah, there’s something profoundly missing, I think sometimes it’s soulish, superficial, sentimental love that’s missing the real root that’s missing the real depth things.  And that’s what concerns me people, I’ve seen this for years, I’ve preached about it.  Christians will go to Israel and they come back, “Oh, it was wonderful, we were in the Holy Land and oh we went to Jerusalem and the Wailing Wall and we saw the Jews praying, it was so wonderful.”  I said, “Yes, it is wonderful, but does it dawn on you that they are so near and yet so far?”  Does it dawn on you that it Yeshua was here there would be conflict once again and that ultimately as religious Jews have more power in Israel that they are going to try to shut down Messianic Jews even more and therefore…

Sid:  Well, look the money that’s going to Israel, part of it is given to anti-missionary organizations that persecute and have done even worse than verbal persecution to Messianic Jews in the land, they don’t even know that.

Michael:  Yeah, and who is the Israel within Israel the ultimate apple of God’s eye in terms of the Jewish people?  It has to be Jewish believers in Jesus living in the land.  And you know when here I’m in full time ministry that is involved and a lot of different things, a lot of good part of what we do is get involved in reaching Jewish people, apologetics, I got a TV show for outreach, etcetera.  That’s not the only thing I do that but when people come and say “We want to support Jewish ministry I say “Give it to worthy Jewish believers in Israel.”  Sure we could use funds too, but get the…they say I want to give to Israel I say “Here I’ll give you names of worthy ministries.”

Sid:  Give to reach souls!

Michael:  Yeah, and give to the remnant that Jesus is especially going to identify with.  And look I know that big things happen now that the Israeli government is more open to Christians in certain ways they recognize the validity of this love.  But you know there’s tremendous spiritual pressure that stands against people witnessing to the Jews.  The devil hates the Jewish people and he wants to destroy them, and two simple truths I don’t know what’s so hard about Christians getting these two truths.  Number one God is not finished with the Jewish people he still has a covenantal purpose for them, and number two Jews need Jesus.  Is that so hard for people to take hold of?

Sid:  Michael you deal brilliant with this in your new book, but let’s go on to a few other subjects that are important.  Is a Christian spiritually Israel?  Is a Christian a Jew?  There are many Christians that are getting confused on these points.  Is a Christian Israel of God?

Michael:  The New Testament does not teach that the church is spiritual Israel; the New Testament does not teach that a Gentile believer in Jesus is a spiritual Jew.  Now I know Christians who love Israel and that are not replacement theology and they’ll tell me, “Oh praise the Lord I’m a spiritual Jew.  I don’t rebuke them or correct them because I see the preciousness of what’s in their heart, but in Roman’s 2 when Paul talks about who is a true Jew the one circumcised in the flesh, or the one circumcised in the heart?  In context he’s talking about two Jews, between two Jews.  Who’s the real Jew in God’s sight?  The one who’s circumcised only in the flesh or the one that’s also circumcised in the heart?  When he speaks of the Israel of God in Galatians 6 he seems to be clearly speaking of Jewish believers in the Messiah, he calls them “The Israel of God.”  In Roman’s 9 “Is not all Israel, Israel?”  He’s not saying Gentile believers are Israel, he’s saying that not everyone that calls himself Israel is fully an Israelite in God’s sight.  No, it’s the Israel within Israel; the Jews within the nation who believe who are the true Israel.  But nowhere is it taught that the church has become the new Israel and therefore God’s finished with the old Israel.  Or that Christians that now believe, followers of Jesus become spiritual Jews, it’s not taught in the New Testament.  We have a lot of common ground, Paul can even write to the Philippians and say “We are the circumcision that Jews and Gentiles alike in the Lord, this new circumcised people in the spirit, but when it comes to crossing that line, like in Romans 11.  He says “I’m writing to you Gentiles and as much as I’m the Apostle to the Gentiles.”  He doesn’t say “I’m writing to you spiritual Jews or spiritual Israelites.”  And Gentile can be used in two ways it can be used in terms of pagans, which is bad, or just meaning the people of the nations.  It’s a fine term, I’m writing to you Gentiles because I’m the apostle to the Gentiles.  If there was ever a place to say by the way, you’re no longer Gentiles you’re Jews, by the way you’re spiritual Israel; that was the place Romans 9, 10 & 11.  He says the opposite and he says that “When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in then all Israel will be saved.”  He makes a distinction between the to.

Sid:  Michael, are there really ten lost tribes of Israel that are living as Jews and will return to Israel?

Michael:  Oh, that’s a hot subject again, all these questions.

Sid:  Everything you wrote is hot!

Michael:  Exactly there all questions in the book.  Okay we know that the ten northern tribes when Israel was destroyed by the Samaritans in 722 – 721 BC.  We know that there was a large scaled scattering of many of the people from these ten tribes.  We know some of them merged with Judah, some of them stayed where they were there was intermarriage, that’s probably where the Samaritans came from, I deal with that question too; “Who were the Samaritans?”  And then others it seemed scattered around the nations”  There are text that seemed to indicate that God will bring these scattered Israelites back to the land, and there are constant reports, Ethiopian Jews, Indian Jews dispute DNA truly Israelite or not, the Rabbis’ debate it.  But it seems that there are these scattered peoples who have preserved some or many of the traditions.  And by the way when they get to Israel and they never heard of the traditions of the Rabbis’ because of the traditions of the Rabbis’ were more recent and the scattering was more ancient.

Sid:  Interesting.

Michael:  It seems they’re there how much can be verified, what’s God going to do at the end?  It’s a great question but…

Sid:  Michael you deal extensively with that in a couple of sentences, “Why would a Christian benefit from reading your new book, “What do Jewish People think About Jesus?”

Michael:  Oh, they’ll answer tons of questions they’ve always wanted to ask and didn’t know who to ask.  It’ll get them all kinds of insights about Jewish people. Fascinating insights about Jesus in the New Testament and clarity about how they’re suppose to live today.

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